Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
 Policy Technical Proposals Idea lab Miscellaneous 
The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ) (see also: Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical)
Click "[show]" next to each point to see more details.
If something looks wrong, purge the server's cache, then bypass your browser's cache.
This tends to solve most issues, including improper display of images, user-preferences not loading, and old versions of pages being shown.
No, we will not use JavaScript to set focus on the search box.
This would interfere with usability, accessibility, keyboard navigation and standard forms. See bug 1864. There is an accesskey property on it (default to accesskey="f" in English), and for logged in users there is a gadget available in your preferences.
No, we will not add a spell-checker, or spell-checking bot.
You can use a web browser such as Firefox, which has a spell checker.
If you have problems making your fancy signature work, check Wikipedia:How to fix your signature.
If you changed to another skin and cannot change back, use this link.
Alternatively, you can press Tab until the "Save" button is highlighted, and press Enter. Using Mozilla Firefox also seems to solve the problem.
If an image thumbnail is not showing, try purging its image description page.
If the image is from Wikimedia Commons, you might have to purge there too. If it doesn't work, try again before doing anything else. Some ad blockers, proxies, or firewalls block URLs containing /ad/ or ending in common executable suffixes. This can cause some images or articles to not appear.
For server or network status, please see Wikimedia Metrics.
« Archives, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176


Suppress rendering of Template:Wikipedia books[edit]

As many are aware Wikipedia books has not worked in a few years and there's no light down the tunnel of any fixes coming...Reading/Web/PDF Functionality (no update on WikiBooks in a year). I am proposing suppressing the rendering capability of Template:Wikipedia books ( related =Template:Book bar & Template:Books-inline) and removal of the Book Creator in the sidebar. This is for our readers so they don't keep going to books that don't work and haven't worked in a few these types of lists exist in outlines already. I'm thinking suppression of the template(s) is better than outright deletion in case the WMF finally does come up with something...then poof...they can all appear when transclusion is implemented again. Currently PDF rendering per page has been implemented so the link seen at Wikipedia:Books about an external program is no longer needed as our in-house PDF system is running.--Moxy 🍁 22:57, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Discussion (Wikipedia books)[edit]

  • Good idea and a future-proof solution. Support per nom. Wug·a·po·des​ 01:20, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I think this is a good idea. Headbomb did some work with this stuff years ago and he might also have some comments about it. Killiondude (talk) 06:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. Ruslik_Zero 08:42, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support, I didn't even know it's not working. Stryn (talk) 10:37, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Seems like phab:T224922 may be relevant here, as mw:Extension:Collection is the extension behind "books". Anomie 12:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. Masum Reza📞 14:22, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Book namespace entirely is dead. There'd be no harm in scrapping it completely. – Ammarpad (talk) 16:24, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment if outlines are more up to date and maintained and are basically redundant, get rid of books. But wait.... these things are for readers, right? Are readers more likely to look for "books" or "outlines"? Maybe we should migrate the excellent and maintained content from outline to "books" and then get rid of outlines. We still reduce fluff but combine maintenence with readership. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:58, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • If it's dead, it's dead. Can be suppressed until and if things come back online. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support. Hrodvarsson (talk) 04:52, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. SD0001 (talk) 20:11, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Support No point offering something to users that can't be used.Nick Moyes (talk) 12:10, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
    Striking my !vote as I now realise the issue is more complex than I had initially thought. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:17, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Restored from archive......should we close this and move on to the technical part of the RfC.--Moxy 🍁 03:29, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Note: Votes below have been cast since the initial close was reverted — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Strong oppose: The Book Creator is still in use as a vital tool in preparing books for rendering by external services. See discussion below. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 05:43, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Seems the original premise above is incorrect, so oppose this strongly per Steelpillow. P. I. Ellsworthed. put'r there 00:50, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • The external tool doesn't really seem particularly usable, so I think it's reasonable to suppress the links and templates. Support. --Yair rand (talk) 04:56, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support The book program is not working and there is really no point in lead us to a pay site for info that is free. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:8d80:540:6525:d552:87b7:e57c:c4d8 (talkcontribs) 21:41, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
    There is every point if the WMF have an agreement with the provider concerned. The payment is not for the information, it is for the bookbinding and postage. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:32, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

This discussion has been notified at mw:Talk:Reading/Web/PDF Functionality. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:32, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Strong oppose: As per Steelpillow. The original proposal and essentially all the supports (so far as I can see) are based on a misunderstanding of the status of the book creator. I had been following the very long and ongoing discussion about the work related to the PediaPress and the mediawiki2latex solutions, because having a properly functioning pdf book creator is a valuable part of wikipedia so far as I'm concerned. It is clear that people here who want to kill this function don't understand what they are killing off. Gpc62 (talk) 19:11, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
    @Gpc62: Would you consider mediawiki2latex to be a properly functioning/usable tool? --Yair rand (talk) 04:24, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose I think that PDF creation of books is important and should be kept. I see that not everyone is happy with my mediawiki2latex solution. Possibly users should raise their voice asking wmf to allocate funds for the development of a better in-house solution, but this should be done in an other discussion. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 08:29, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose The loss of the rendering system for books certainly made Wikipedia less useful from my point of view. Even without it the Book Creator interface is something I find useful. It allows the rapid and interactive collection of topical pages into useful order/format. Doing that by hand is a pain. Killing the function has a very small marginal benefit to the people who do not use it and a high cost to those of us who do. Jbh Talk 18:55, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per Dirk below: since I got quite some anarchistic thoughts, I kind of enjoy business models explode in huge fireballs. People make money off these books, but they do not serve our readers well. Time to explode in huge fireballs, or at least hide the template. Levivich 04:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
    In what way does the PediaPress print-on-demand-service (the only pay-for bit) not serve our readers well? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 09:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Support per above. Old/buggy, and no longer being developed. Leaving this out in the open begets opportunities for an exceptionally poor reader/user experience -FASTILY 00:53, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
    @Fastily: Factually you are wholly incorrect. The PediaPress PoD service is not buggy, the MediaWiki2 LaTeX softcopy service is not old but new and under continued bug-squishing. Have you not read the discussion below? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:05, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
    Right, and that's your opinion. Obviously I disagree, hence my support !vote. -FASTILY 01:13, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
    No, it is not my opinion, it is factual. You have no evidence to support your opinion that the PediaPress service is buggy. You have no evidence to suggest that MediaWiki2LaTeX is either old or moribund, in fact it has been usefully updated during the discussion, which you would know if you had followed it, and you can ask the lead developer when he wrote it if you like, he is participating here. There is far too much opinion and not enough fact in this thread, please do not make it worse. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:02, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been notified at mw:Extension talk:Collection. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:49, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Discussion after reverted closure[edit]

Reverted close: WP:SNOW close with consensus for proposal. I am fully aware that RfC's usually should run for 30 days and willing to re-open if there are any concerns. (non-admin closure) --Trialpears (talk) 23:26, 31 August 2019 (UTC)}}

I have reverted my close due to concerns raised on my talk page about insufficient notifications to the book making community and insufficient discussion about working external tools. I have posted notifications to WT:BOOKS and Help talk:Books. --Trialpears (talk) 20:24, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Need help in removing the book creator from the side bar--Moxy 🍁 15:49, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
    That can only be done by requesting a site change on Phabricator. I am not sure the above demonstrates the necessary consensus for that change. --Izno (talk) 16:44, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
    @Moxy: That would require an interface admin to add #coll-create_a_book { display: none; } to Mediawiki:Common.css. --Yair rand (talk) 18:11, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Note: the following two-part post was made before the initial close was reverted — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

YIKES! STOP EVERYBODY! The Book Creator tool remains an essential feature in order to create and edit Wikipedia books for external services such as PediaPress print-on-demand and the MediaWiki2LaTex independent PDF rendering service. It is only our in-house rendering that has gone (and may yet come back, as PediaPress have undertaken to provide a replacement). Please roll back all these stakes through its heart! — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:08, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Specifically, the OP's rationale that "Currently PDF rendering per page has been implemented so the link seen at Wikipedia:Books about an external program is no longer needed as our in-house PDF system is running," is wholly wrong-headed. Yes we have a new article renderer, but it is a totally unrelated function from book rendering. That needs entirely different software in two parts - the book creator/designer which lists articles for inclusion and the book renderer which pulls all the articles together. We have only lost the book rendering, the old book creator/editor is still functional and still in use. The linked external book rendering service is still also operational. It has absolutely not been withdrawn or overtaken by the new article renderer. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:16, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Removed {{warning}} from your comment. Hope that's okay. --Yair rand (talk) 03:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Yep, it's done its job. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:03, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Close reverted I have reverted my close due to concerns raised on my talk page about insufficient notifications to the book making community and insufficient discussion about working external tools. I have posted notifications to WT:BOOKS and Help talk:Books. --Trialpears (talk) 20:24, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
    Good call wait till the concerns raised on your talk are brought here for discussion.--Moxy 🍁 23:59, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
    What else needs to be brought here besides what I already said just above? The Book Creator is still in use. End of. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 02:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    So leave the link in the side bar and leave all the books so we can lead our readers to a third party? Is the main purpose going to be fixed? --Moxy 🍁 18:48, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    Depends what you regard as the "main purpose". The PediaPress PoD pay-for service has always been an integral part of Wikipedia Book delivery. The WMF have accepted an offer from PediaPress to write a new Mediawiki PDF book renderer for us too and they have made an alpha build available at , however there is no timeframe for completion/rollout. You can find out a little more at mw:Reading/Web/PDF Functionality and the associated talk page and archives. As far as I know their software is not tracked on phabricator. Meanwhile Dirk Hünniger has made his own MediaWiki2LaTeX open-source PDF book renderer pull service available to fill the gap. In that sense the "main purpose" of having both PDF and PoD WikiBooks available is currently fulfilled. As long as the Book Creator (aka the Collection Extension) delivers its part of that functionality, as required by the WMF, it will stay in the MediaWiki build and we need to support it with UI widgets to the best of our ability. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:50, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    Pppery, should the change to Module:Subject bar be reverted in light of the change to this RFC outcome? – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:19, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    I personally consider the reversion of the closure to itself be improper, so I won't revert the change to Module:Subject bar myself, but another template editor could of course do so. * Pppery * it has begun... 22:23, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
    It was perfectly proper. The closer did not wait the required 30 days, noting in their closing statement that if anybody objected the discussion could be reopened. I objected both here and on their talk page so they reopened. Nothing whatsoever improper about that. What was improper was the OP's failure to place any notification on the affected template's talk page or the Book project's talk page, until after the closure. Paine Ellsworth and I were actually discussing and updating the template while this discussion was going on, but without ever being informed of its existence. That is a gross breach of procedure on the part of the OP. I don't know anything about Module:Subject bar but any change to it has arisen as a result of this failure to consult properly. I would be most grateful if somebody could see their way to reverting it. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:35, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
    Yes, thought it best to remove the commenting, at least until we sort all this out. P. I. Ellsworthed. put'r there 15:09, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm confused. Is there a working system for converting books to PDF or not, on-wiki or off-? It looks like MediaWiki2LaTeX is for converting individual pages, just like the built-in converter? --Yair rand (talk) 03:05, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
    Yes, it is working. To convert a book, you give its page location to MediaWiki2LaTex. The service then pulls all the articles linked in its contents and builds the entire book. Or, you can give it a single article and it will render that alone. I see that various options for conversion mode and output format have been added since I last used it. So it provides either book or single-page conversion, depending on what you give it. Either way, you need only give it a single page location, tell it what you want and it figures out the rest, that may be what is puzzling you. (By contrast, if you use the built-in converter on a Book page, it will just convert the page to PDF, which is seldom very helpful) — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:35, 3 September 2019 (UTC)


I am the maintainer of mediawiki2latex. Maybe it is a bit off topic, but I got two views on this point. Firstly mediawiki2latex currently provides a way to get PDFs from books hosted on Wikipedia and keeping this possibility might be an advantage for some users of the content, particularly those with small financial resources, which is a good thing as such. The resources on the web interface to mediawiki2atex (which is hosted by wmf) are quite limited so that book may a most contain a few dozens of articles. mediawiki2latex is also provided as a binary package for Debian Linux without any limits on the number of articles per books.

Removing the books from Wikipedia would not cause any financial consequences to me since I am only doing this as an unpayed hobby project in me spare time. Still pediapress financially relies on the book feature on wikipedia. So closing the book feature might cause pediapress to stop all business activities in this field, which causes me to have a monopoly, which is the greatest thing you can get in capitalism. So the choice is yours. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 14:37, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Do you have any stats in how often it's used? We know that people don't order Wiki books as most are 9,000 pages plus and thus simply not feasible. The question real is do we keep books to simply link them to a third party site?--Moxy 🍁 03:36, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
The web interface is roughly used once an hour, so about 20 times a day. It cannot be used much more since there is a time limit of one hour and at most one process may run at a time due to the limited resources. The statistics of the Debian package are given here . Still it is quite hard to infer anything from the Debian statistics since only very few Debian users take part in the statistics survey at all. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 06:31, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
You need to understand that this is a dynamic situation. When the original in-house service became progressively more and more unmaintainable - both hardware and software stacks - the quality of output got left behind as the rest of MediaWiki and user templates got more sophisticated. Usage consequently also fell away until that low usage began to be used as a "reason" why fixing the system was an equally low priority. Here we see the same fallacy again. MediaWiki2LaTeX is under active development. Compared to its launch state its hardware and software have both improved substantially, allowing the maximum book size to be increased. This is still only a small, low-resource system by Wikipedia standards but usage has picked up accordingly, as Dirk says it is near maximum for the WMF hosted instance, and this upward trend will continue. The priority for this facility is not reflected in where it is now but where usage will/would be when further developed and deployed. "Do we keep books so we can link to 3rd party sites?" is the wrong question, not the real one as you suggest. The real question is, "Do we want Wikipedia Books in any form?" Once we answer that, we can make decisions about in-house vs. third-party. As already pointed out, the involvement of PediaPress in the Wikipedia Books project and its UI upload link to PediaPress goes back a decade or more to day one. The Books project has always linked to a third party because this is inherent in the pay-for model of print-on-demand and the WMF does not do pay-for services. Any decision to pull the plug on the PediaPress upload would have to be agreed in consultation with the highest levels within the WMF; our local village pump is quite the wrong venue to bandy about such far-reaching consequences. I would suggest that, since PediaPress have volunteered out of the goodness of their hearts to try and develop a replacement in-house renderer for us, then stuffing them where it hurts would not be either wise or ethical. We have two competing pdf renderers and a third, commercial PoD service here, all supported in different ways by the WMF due to the current dynamics of the situation - and you suggest we kill the whole deal. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:38, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
I raised some issues with the lead developer of MediaWiki2LaTeX through their official Requests page. I found these with my usual test case Book:Wings of Hamburg. He did a quick update to one of the config files for template processing. Compared to the quality when this discussion was opened, the book is no longer bloated by over-expanded infoboxes and navboxes, but comes in at almost half the previous file size and page count and is far more readable. Some other issues I realised will take longer to fix, but this does underline the dynamics of the situation and the active and ongoing support.— Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:13, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

I think it's high time we invited the WMF over to participate in this discussion. I am not sure of the best way to do that, but I have tried what I can. If anybody knows the correct place to post an advisory over there, please do so. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:13, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, the majority seems to have a clear opinion. Many contributors have brought forward their arguments, currently there seem to be no new arguments. I am really looking forward to a decision being taken. In my impish mind I will be really pleased to see these fireworks go off. Especially when imagining that these relaxed well paid, socially secured people, well assured that there is never any problem, will suddenly have to work quite a lot. My systems will keep running. But possibly I should better change my telephone number. Good Luck Dirk Hünniger (talk) 14:36, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

I do not understand this comment. I feel like I'm missing some context? --Yair rand (talk) 04:26, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Well, Pediapress earns money from selling the printed copies of wikipedia books. If we remove the template their sales will drop by (lets guess) 80%. Futhermore pediapress pays parts of money the earn from selling each book directly to wmf. So also wmf will have a considerable decrease in income. So in this case there will be a meeting between wmf and pediapress very soon, and this will be quite a stormy affair. But since I got quite some anarchistic thoughts, I kind of enjoy business models explode in huge fireballs. But yeah, I thinks it is better for the users to keep these option available for the users, so I voted for keeping the template. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 08:31, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Got an email from the boss...found stats Book Tool sales data.--Moxy 🍁 21:15, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
So, €341,776 in revenue over 40 months. Even if we assumed that the books cost nothing to produce (unlikely), and that 100% of income is donated, that would be about €100,000 per year, compared to the WMF's $100,000,000+ in donations per year. I don't think it can be considered "a considerable decrease in income". --Yair rand (talk) 04:26, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Contrary to your "half-empty" pessimism, I see these stats as "Wow! Real $$$!" It does seem grossly unfair that the Book project generates five-figure sales year on year and receives zero inward investment in return. If say half the WMF income from books was reinvested in the Books project, even €2,000 a year would be a hugely significant increase in the project's resources. It would allow the project to improve quality, boost uptake, increase income and make everybody's life better in a nice, socialistic upward spiral. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Those stats are unfortunately a bit out of date. Levivich 04:31, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Since the usability of mediawiki2latex is discussed. I provide to examples of the output of the large document server

I choose these two examples since I think to remeber to have seen them in this discussion. So everyone can now look at them and find his / her own opinion. Everyone is also wellcome to add examples and of you to send me bug reports on what he / she wants changed.Dirk Hünniger (talk) 12:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

So we get an error because they are to small do they have to be?--Moxy 🍁 10:59, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
There are two servers:
I used the big one in both cases. But I think the normal one should do a well for the Wings of Hamburg Book, but not for Canada Book. Furthermore the server only processes one document at a time, and an error message will be displayed if an other user request a conversion while a conversion is already running ("Not enough resources availiable to process your request!"). The software can basically run requests in parallel, but the maximum number of parallel requests was set to one in order to account for the limited hardware resources. The limits on the hardware resources, were set by wmf, and you should contact them directly if you feel they need to be increased. But if you want to find out if mediawiki2latex serves your needs I strongly recommend to install the Debian package and test with that since there are no limit in the package at all. The main limiting resources is random access memory. You need roughly 5 MByte per page. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 11:23, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Moxy, thank you for highlighting what is essentially an issue with the user documentation. I have now updated the user manual accordingly. Note also that the maximum size of around 800 pages on the large-book server is larger (ISTR about 200 pages more) than the old OCG could manage. Since the template config has been tweaked this has reduced the time my own test books run for, meaning that if a document is accepted for processing then even more pages can likely be processed before timeout. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
This is disappointing as alot of our books are way over 800 pages...shit been fighting to keep a books smaller for years as seen here just to find out the smaller version is still to big...dame.--Moxy 🍁 20:45, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


As one of the founders and current CEO of PediaPress, I'd like to express my point of view. The book creator / collection extension was created more than 10 years ago and is still in active use today. Check the original press release from 2007. PediaPress donates 10% of its gross revenue from Wikipedia books to the WMF every year (more than €70,000 total over the last ten years). After a couple of failed attempts to create print products from Wikipedia, the partnership with PediaPress was established to allow for a consistently available, self-service, and good quality print export of Wiki content. The relevance of this use case has declined over the years but it is still relevant for a small group of avid users (I can share full revenue data if desired). The collection extension has been vital in enabling this feature. Without an easy to use interface, most Wikipedia users will never be able to explore this. Even though I had only limited time to work on the new book renderer in the past few months, I/PediaPress is committed to delivering high quality PDF and print export for Wikipedia and other wikis in the future. We agreed to release the new HTML renderer as open source and to sponsor the PDF book rendering going forward. I would hope that this feature would not be shut down and I am very open for talking about how to make book export better and more relevant. Ckepper (talk) 13:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

So it seems more logical to link PediaPress over our books that dont work...or do we need the book pages for Pedia press to work? --Moxy 🍁 20:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
We need the collection extension along with its Book Creator GUI to provide the upload function to the PediaPress service. Technically a book page can be built in user space and designed manually, but the Book namespace and Book Creator make life a lot easier. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
@Ckepper:Thank you for your perspective! It's very encouraging that there's signficantly better support for books than there appeared to be at first. Looking at some of the previews I have a few potential improvements, first there were quite a lot of weird tags such as <indicator> around padlocks, <templatestyles /> and </ref> tags. These obviously shouldn't be there. I also was wondering if the preview was actually loading or just broken when trying to open it. An explicit "Your preview is currently being typeset" message would avoid this problem. For more general improvements I feel like some templates simply shouldn't appear in printed versions, such as sound samples and protection levels. They're simply not relevant. I could try looking into the template aspects of implementing such a feature if that would be desirable. --Trialpears (talk) 21:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

While it's possible to download or reading a book it's not very convenient. Rendering a book with MediaWiki2LaTex often takes many hours and some setup if someone else is using the online resources and the pediapress preview doesn't show the entire book. Would it be possible to upload a pre-rendered book from MediaWiki2LaTex on the book pages ready to be downloaded or read. If that was the case this would be even better than when there was an inhouse pdf renderer. --Trialpears (talk) 21:23, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not store rendered books. Each time one is requested the collection extension compiles a new edition from the current state of its content articles. This ensures that the book always aligns with the current encyclopedia content, which is what readers would expect. Also, storing every edition of every compiled book, the inbuilt journaling/rollback storage functionality of the mediawiki software, could also create a space/speed problem. PediaPress used to make their print pdf available for free download but have stopped doing that, I guess too many folks were using them as an ebook repository or something. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Most readers would also expect to be able to read the book without having to wait for several hours. I think it's definitley worth the quite minor drawbacks in favor of a massive advantage in terms of usability. --Trialpears (talk) 07:17, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, this is possible. I did some experiments on that to estimate the costs:
In short it will only cover featured book and take one year to calculate, as well a $2000 server costs. So if someone want to pay for that we can do it. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 06:43, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Yikes, that's a lot more than I expected. What if Mediawiki2Latex uploaded all books it's requested to render using the Wikimedia resources as well as providing them to the person requesting it? Then the books with the highest demand would be uploaded without using additional ccomputational resources. --Trialpears (talk) 07:17, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
I can call a shell script with the name of the book as well as the pdf file, each time the server generates a book in the book namespace. All remaining work would be up to you. Convincing the community that such a bot is Ok to run. Convincing that there needs to be a template linking to it. Writing the lua of that template. And finally writing the upload bot. So if you want to do that work, you are welcome to do so. Dirk Hünniger (talk) 07:53, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Overreaching scope of changes[edit]

At the point I intervened to get the SNOW close reverted, editors here were going way beyond the mere deactivation of Template:Wikipedia books, which is the subject of this RfC. Pppery made changes to Module:Subject bar, also since reverted, and Moxy was trying to remove a link from the main sidebar menu. Neither of those changes was part of the RfC discussion and they were not justified even if the close decision had stuck. Moxy, the OP, had also failed to advise interested parties of the discussion or even to post a notice of it on the talk page of the subject template. It might help those of us involved with the Books work to understand your case here if you could explain your conduct and why you felt this issue allowed you to override our normal community consensus process? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

If you were to read the RfC yes the side bar was part of the proposal as was related templates. As for notification are correct that the project page was not notified as it seems dead for years (my bad) . But you have corrected this ...may I ask why you saying all this all again? All is now in order and it seems your simply bitter about the current progress. --Moxy 🍁 20:12, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Fair enough, my mistake on the scope and I must apologise for that. But I do still think the title of this thread is misleading and that gives some partial justification for my error. On notification, when I pointed out your failure to notify on your talk page, you responded by getting upset with me. When I made that point again, more publicly in the main discussion, you ignored it. This third mention is the first time you have acknowledged you got it wrong, so thank you for clearing the air. I am not so much bitter as irritated and mildly baffled by the disinformation being constantly pumped out by the supporters of this RfC, despite repeated corrections and clarifications by not only myself but also the software developers involved and, since your original flawed justification began that trail, my approach to you has naturally been tainted by that. I am pleased to see that we are getting past these issues. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:19, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Have no clue where I got upset...all I have been doing is asking questions trying to figure out if it's worth one in 30,000 people who click on other services offered by a third party that may or may not work is worth it. As for no reply... clearly No Malice intent on my part so I felt no need to respond as it does nothing to move the conversation forward. (Like this whole section that could be collapsed) --Moxy 🍁 01:24, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps your phrasing on your talk page was grumpier than you realised, we all fall for that one. Then, given your misguided justification in your original post, it was initially less obvious to some of us that no malice was intended. I am glad we have got that straight now. Should we just delete this whole subsection from the thread? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:29, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Problem with Template:Graph:Population history[edit]

I think the specific template does not work right during the last weeks. Graphs do not show up and look like broken images. But when previewing in editing mode they do appear working actually. Examples can be found on the template itself or here. Any suggestions? --Αρκάς (talk) 20:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Αρκάς, changes are being made to the version in the German wikipedia and imported here. Pinging @Yurik, Yair rand, and IagoQnsi: who have been working on the graph template and Module:Graph, though the problem seems to have started before the most recent changes here. It is very strange that the graphs appear in preview just beautifully, but vanish when reading the articles. StarryGrandma (talk) 03:18, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. Then i guess we will have to wait for them.--Αρκάς (talk) 06:38, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
I ended up reverting all my changes right after I made them, so it wasn't something I did. When you are previewing the articles, the images are rendered on your machine with JavaScript, but when you save the article, the images are rendered by MediaWiki's servers. So the issue must be with the server-side renderer if it's only broken on the saved pages and not the previews. --IagoQnsi (talk) 22:49, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
IagoQnsi, Αρκάς recorded the problem at the template talk page Aug 8, before your changes. I was hoping one of you would know where we could go from here. Someone reported this at mw:Template talk:Graph:Population history two months ago on July 4 (where it is also not working) and got no response. Is there anything about this in Phabricator? StarryGrandma (talk) 23:27, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes, actually it is definitely been going on for some months now. When i mentioned "weeks" i was not precise, but since we are trying to timestamp it...--Αρκάς (talk) 00:18, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
It is a known problem, T226250 at Phabricator, "Graph not displayed if linked to a wikidata query". The uses of the template you gave, both in the template documention and at the Bogotá article in question, are going to wikidata for their information. StarryGrandma (talk) 00:22, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Ok thanks. Also pinging @Geraki:, as i'm guessing he would be interested as well. --Αρκάς (talk) 00:25, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Any possibilities that this gets fixed? Thanks. --Αρκάς (talk) 12:11, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Validating facts from emails[edit]


I have forgotten the process for using emails to validate refs.

Can someone please remind me where to go to find the info to start the process of getting an email sent in to Wiki?

Thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 19:03, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Should this be @ help desk instead of here? Chaosdruid (talk) 19:06, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Possibly. For starters, I am unsure of what you're asking. Could you more clearly give us an example scenario? Killiondude (talk) 03:25, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
@Chaosdruid: Is it possible that you're thinking of OTRS? I'm not sure if they handle exactly the type of request you're talking about, but OTRS is the main place that emails to Wikipedia are handled. — This, that and the other (talk) 07:20, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
@This, that and the other: & @Killiondude: It was a process where something to be used in an article/as a ref had to be proven to be from the person in question, rather than Joe Bloggs with a made up email address ... In this case I need to get the names of band members out of an email from their management team, but need to be able to say "this is where it came from" Chaosdruid (talk) 17:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Emails are private communications, and so will not satisfy WP:V because other people can't check what the source is claimed to state. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:15, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
There is a process for verifying them, that is the whole point of my query. I used it years ago to get email validation on a source, and I believe it DID involve OTRS. Chaosdruid (talk) 17:00, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
No. OTRS can be used to verify the identity of someone. That might be used, for example, to demonstrate that the author of a blog was in fact a recognized expert on the subject, and that might make the blog a reliable source. There is no other kind of email verification of an assertion. What is certain is that an unpublished email is not a reliable source, and nothing can make it reliable. Johnuniq (talk) 00:32, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Which is exactly what I wanted, to prove that the source of the information is who they say they are ... thanks, well, not really, but at least you gave me the OTRS info which got me there in the end ... Chaosdruid (talk) 21:59, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Template:Boxboxtop causing weird visual errors in Safari?[edit]

Hello all, I have been dealing with this visual error for a while now and find it quite annoying. Whenever I hover over the "show" boxes in my infobox on my userpage, it continually "drifts" downwards the more you hover over the "show" buttons. I have also experienced this problem on Chrome using my desktop, however, Chrome on my Mac appears to like it now. Does anyone have any ideas? (Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 60#Template:Boxboxtop not working correctly in Firefox or Chrome might be related?) --TheSandDoctor Talk 02:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

TheSandDoctor, iv seen this before. The caption of the table wrapping your user boxes gets pushed below the table for some reason. I suspect this is a CSS or html validity error or something, but I've never been able to figure out a cause completely. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:42, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the response, TheDJ. Huh. The issue appears to now just be on my mac, but I have removed the offending boxes and re-done my userpage over the past few days for a number of reasons (badly needed update, to get rid of that stupid visual error, etc). Hopefully the cause and fix is found eventually. Have you experienced it yourself or just heard others complaining of it (Face-tongue.svg)? --TheSandDoctor Talk 15:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikimedia down[edit]

For all those that are wondering, yes Wikimedia did go down and may still be down for some, Wikimedia Operations is aware and is working hard to fix that issue. There is a phabricator task, located here. Thank you!

(English Wikipedia Tech Ambassador) Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 20:32, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Slightly more info: and Kaldari (talk) 04:08, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
The perps are broadcasting their activity on twitter [1] looks like they have now moved from targetting Wikipedia to attacking Twitch servers. --Salix alba (talk): 04:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Problems loading pages, logging-in?[edit]

Problems logging in, also often just reading or trying to edit - last eight hours - no notices on Wikipedia or Wikimedia... how does one report such problems, how are they notified to the community? And how is progress in fixing them? Thanks2A00:1370:8117:4B0D:C4ED:E9B:7451:EB70 (talk) 07:06, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

It's a known problem: See T232224 and above comments. Also people are working to get things right. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:42, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Downtime information and links[edit]

I this the goto place for information on downtime? What links are there to downtime information? Could/should there be a link or info on Downtime (disambiguation)? Just asking, had some trouble finding here. Anyway, thanks for the info. Rakeroot (talk) 22:26, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

IRC (specifically #wikimedia-tech) is generally the best place to get information on ongoing downtime. This page usually has reports too if it's reachable. After the event technical reports are posted at, although it can take some time for the relevant information to be gathered. the wub "?!" 00:02, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Should Wikipedia use Cloudflare?[edit]

There are some concerns. [2] Benjamin (talk) 11:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Katherine (WMF) stated in Twitter that WMF had made a decision not to use any commercial CDN at all: "this has been a deliberate choice to preserve privacy and maintain independence". IMHO, "A massive IOT botnet attack is a new challenge, we’ll adapt" is not an assuring answer, and neither I can see how an own custom CDN could be a safer and more effective feature than a professional one. However, I don't know where it is an appropriate place to discuss advantages, disadvantages and possible change of this policy. Ain92 (talk) 11:19, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
    Is there no existing open-source/libre CDN that we could use and/or adapt? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
    Ain92, it should be noted that there is a big difference between a CDN and DDoS mitigation systems. I know that people are very used to buy the whole cloudflare package and think everything is one and the same but that's not exactly the case. We don't need a CDN per se, but we do require DDoS mitigation. But this too is complicated within our privacy limitations. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Can I not see notices for discussions in which I have already participated?[edit]

I received a notice on top of my watchlist for an ongoing RfA. The thing is, it turns out that I have already participated in this RfA. Can the notification system be set up so that it passes on notifying people who have already participated in the discussion, and do not need to be notified? I ask because I have no way of knowing that this isn't an entirely new RfA without visiting the page, which is not the best use of time. The same might apply for any kind of noticed discussion. bd2412 T 02:37, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't know of a proper solution, sorry. I don't know if you typically find your way to RfAs using that notice, but if you do then you could open the RfA in a new tab when you see it and dismiss the notice. It's just a workaround, but it might work for you. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 02:49, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion. bd2412 T 04:07, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
The watchlist message can be discussed at MediaWiki talk:Watchlist-messages but I doubt an automatic system can work efficiently. Naming the candidates was opposed at Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/Archive 254#Usernames in watchlist notices and other discussions linked there. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:46, 9 September 2019 (UTC)


Whenever I contribute in Wikipedia articles, an icon called "Provelt" appears at the bottom-right of the window. What is this? —Yours sincerely, Soumyabrata (talksubpages) 06:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

@Soumya-8974: Do you have the ProveIt gadget checked at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets? If so, that's probably it. --Yair rand (talk) 06:27, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, I have unmarked the gadget. —Yours sincerely, Soumyabrata (talksubpages) 06:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

cannot save edits 404 error[edit]

On that page, attempting to save edits, I get "Something went wrong" "HTTP 404". I cleared all caches as documented in WP but did not help. BrucePL (talk) 19:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Ammarpad saved an edit after your post. I had no problems saving an edit now. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:08, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter: thanks. I saved a few edits but it bombed again. Cannot switch to source editor and cannot save in VE. BrucePL (talk) 22:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
"Error loading data from server: apierror-visualeditor-docserver-http." BrucePL (talk) 22:19, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
I tried VisualEditor this time and it also worked fine for me. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:21, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
I don't know what to do. I can save eidts on other pages not this one. BrucePL (talk) 22:33, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
I openned the article in a new tab and editors worked. BrucePL (talk) 22:51, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

There's something going on. I saw something like this twice, a couple of days ago. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:45, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, getting this again. I edited Draft:Morse Robb using visual editor, and when I went to save it, got the 404 error. I'm now at a point where if I try to switch to source editing, I get, "Error loading data from server: apierror-visualeditor-docserver-http." If I select "Visual editing" from the drop-down menu (even though I'm already in visual), I get in the javascript console:

Extended content
load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116 Uncaught TypeError: Illegal invocation
    at add (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116)
    at buildParams (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115)
    at buildParams (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115)
    at buildParams (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115)
    at Function.jQuery.param (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116)
    at Function.jQuery.param (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:150)
    at Function.ajax (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:123)
    at Function.jQuery.ajax (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:144)
    at Object.requestParsoidData (<anonymous>:461:31)
    at (<anonymous>:787:643)
add @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116
buildParams @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115
buildParams @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115
buildParams @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115
jQuery.param @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116
jQuery.param @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:150
ajax @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:123
jQuery.ajax @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:144
requestParsoidData @ VM206:461 @ VM218:787 @ VM218:1238
ve.ui.MWEditModeVisualTool.switch @ VM218:798 @ VM218:320
OO.ui.ToolGroup.onMouseKeyUp @ VM218:11
OO.ui.PopupToolGroup.onMouseKeyUp @ VM218:20
OO.ui.ListToolGroup.onMouseKeyUp @ VM218:25
OO.ui.ToolGroup.onDocumentMouseKeyUp @ VM218:11
load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116 Uncaught TypeError: Illegal invocation
    at add (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116)
    at buildParams (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115)
    at buildParams (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115)
    at buildParams (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115)
    at Function.jQuery.param (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116)
    at Function.jQuery.param (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:150)
    at Function.ajax (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:123)
    at Function.jQuery.ajax (load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:144)
    at Object.requestParsoidData (<anonymous>:461:31)
    at (<anonymous>:787:643)
add @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116
buildParams @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115
buildParams @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115
buildParams @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:115
jQuery.param @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:116
jQuery.param @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:150
ajax @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:123
jQuery.ajax @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:144
requestParsoidData @ VM206:461 @ VM218:787 @ VM218:1238
ve.ui.MWEditModeVisualTool.switch @ VM218:798 @ VM218:320
OO.ui.ToolGroup.onMouseKeyUp @ VM218:11
OO.ui.PopupToolGroup.onMouseKeyUp @ VM218:20
OO.ui.ListToolGroup.onMouseKeyUp @ VM218:25
dispatch @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:69
elemData.handle @ load.php?lang=en&modules=jquery%2Coojs-ui-core&skin=vector&version=0ymep1p:65

I'm not sure, but I think a common theme is that the page I'm editing was recently moved. It certainly was in this case, and in one of the previous ones that I saw a few days ago. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:32, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

phab:T230272 possibly? There's some others in the backlog also. --Izno (talk) 17:54, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Watchlist - highlight certain editors names[edit]

I mostly edit political and climate articles, both very contentious areas subject to DS. Sometimes upset editors tell me to stay off their user talk page. Is there a way to customize my watch list so their user names appear differently than those of other editors? I'm just looking for a way to help me remember so I can respect such wishes. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 20:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I bet a modification to the admin highlighter script could manage that for you.--Jorm (talk) 20:50, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
You don't need scripts, just one CSS rule will do it. Each row of a watchlist has the user name several times, so if you want to make edits by User:Example1 and User:Example2 to have a red background, you can highlight all of the links by using
/* make it easier to skip past edits by Example1 and Example2 */ a[href="/wiki/User:Example1"], a[href="/wiki/User_talk:Example1"], a[href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Example1"], a[href="/wiki/User:Example2"], a[href="/wiki/User_talk:Example2"], a[href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Example2"] {
  background: red;
This goes in Special:MyPage/common.css or Special:MyPage/skin.css, whichever one you normally use for custom CSS. You can replace the keyword red with any valid web colour. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:01, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

This will prevent you from editing their user/user_talk pages (if that's the real problem) whilst still seeing what goes on:

var myEnemies = ["Cobaltcigs", "Tom", "Dick", "Harry"];
var iAmEditingUserspace = (wgAction == "edit") && [2,3].includes(wgNamespaceNumber);
var thisGuyHatesMe = myEnemies.includes(wgRelevantUserName);
if(iAmEditingUserspace && thisGuyHatesMe) $("#editform :input").prop('disabled', true);

Configure the first line as appropriate but please keep my name on it. ―cobaltcigs 21:19, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the tech answer and the laugh. If I use this, I think I'll tweak the variable names a bit to reflect the optimistic hope that despite todays bumps one day we might be friends. Still, that was funny. And thank you everyone else for the alternative answers to this problem, also!! NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:23, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Ein Karem[edit]

Please fix:

  • The broken syntax on "elevation" in the infobox
  • Reference 10

Thank you!

2607:FEA8:1DE0:7B4:7811:3461:7039:276 (talk) 21:40, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Fixed by other editors. – Ammarpad (talk) 22:22, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Zhaofeng Li/reFill[edit]

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Village pump (technical) § Zhaofeng Li/reFill: Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:21, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

The Zhaofeng Li/reFill tool does not add Retrieved (date) data anymore. I can not get into contact with Zhaofeng Li as he seem to have left the project. But if someone could take a look at the tool I would appreciate it. [3] --BabbaQ (talk) 21:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

It seems he made it now you have to explicitly request for the date to be added (i.e disabaled by default). If you use the new (beta) interface directly, there's a "Preferences" link by your right. You've to enable it from there. If you use, the old interface (which redirects to the new in background) you'll notice that an option "Do not add access dates" is checked by default. You've to uncheck it. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:55, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The problem with the old beta is that I do uncheck it but it still does not add the data I want. I will try the new one. --BabbaQ (talk) 08:47, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
One more thing, right now when I click on View History and then Fix dead links I get the old beta. Perhaps a change to the new and improved version would benefit the project. Thanks.BabbaQ (talk) 10:11, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The tool that fixes dead links is a different tool. I don't know where its new version is, but you can suggest changing the link at MediaWiki talk:Histlegend. – Ammarpad (talk) 10:25, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I have been through a cold and is a bit off. Thanks for your help anyway.BabbaQ (talk) 17:40, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Estranged preloadtitle=[edit]

In en.Wikipedia, some links creating a new report via section=new don’t specify the heading in preloadtitle=, pushing it into the body-text form instead. It usually leads to empty edit summary, which is despicable. Moreover, a proposed fix in Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring/Example is ignored. Opinions? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 06:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

You're the only one who looked at Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring/Example in the last 30 days, so your comment was not ignored, it was just not seen. There's little reason to watch that page. The code for that new section link comes from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring/Header, you can edit it yourself. – Ammarpad (talk) 07:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Did I ask how to do? Expectedly such questions form 90% of threads here, but pay please some attention to who posts stuff and how. As for “little reason to watch that page”, in the shoes of an en.Wikipedia technician I certainly would watch thousands such pages. Even having denied promotion to template editors I watch hundreds templates and similar things. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 07:38, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
If you were not asking how to do it, what are you asking? You already know the fix you want to apply, so you can either apply it and see if someone disagrees, or ask whoever will be affected. In the latter case, it likely means a post at Wikipedia talk:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring - the people here might have no idea of the technical details (i.e. not be "en-wp technicians"), but they are the ones you need to convince (assuming you want to get a consensus in the first place, IMO you should go for the BOLD route). TigraanClick here to contact me 08:35, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Edit-conflicting with self[edit]

Hello everyone, has anyone else had an issue where the "Publish changes" button saves your edit but then the editing interface says that there was an edit conflict? I have had it happen rather frequently as of late, yet when I check the page history my edit was saved correctly. It appears to quite literally be either an error in the interface or for some reason trying to publish the same edit twice (consecutively) and causing me to self-conflict. It doesn't happen every time, but does occur a lot. It is rather annoying.... --TheSandDoctor Talk 15:16, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

I have the exact same problem. See also Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_176#False_edit_conflict_problem_when_saving. Thue (talk) 18:41, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
There are many bug reports for this issue, two of them are: phab:T28821 and phab:T59264. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:41, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, @Thue and Ammarpad:. I have subscribed and commented on both. I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this Face-tongue.svg. --TheSandDoctor Talk 15:11, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Tool for locating pages that have been removed from categories.[edit]

I don’t know if this has been brought up as a topic previously, but if not, is there a tool that can locate/search for pages that have been removed from categories? If not, I feel like this kind of tool would be useful, as it’s very difficult to keep track of this type of thing.Dohvahkiin (talk) 18:21, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

It has serious limitations and you may want to use an alternative account with a tiny watchlist but see "Category membership" at Help:Watchlist#Limitations. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:58, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Cannot save edit on pages when using cellular network with mobile device[edit]

For the past few days, probably since after the Wikipedia outage that happened a few days ago, I have not been able to save edits while on and using the cellular network on my mobile device. I am able to save edits when my mobile device is connect to WiFi, but not on cellular. I’ve tried...

  • ...On my iPhone...
    1. ...Multiple internet browsing apps (Safari, Chrome, and Firefox)
    2. ...tried editing from both "mobile" and "desktop" view
    3. ...tried clearing my browsers' cookies and history
    4. ...resetting the network settings on my mobile device
    5. ...resetting my entire phone and attempting to use the internet before restoring my phone
...And none of this worked.

What happens is when I click the "save" button after creating an edit, the next page doesn’t load, and I get an error that says the server is not responding. In the past 5–6 years I have been editing primarily from a cellular network, this has never happened, and it's a bit alarming. Either way, I hope there is a fix for this issue since I really enjoy volunteering on Wikipedia, but may now have long periods of not editing due to these issues (since I primarily edit using a cellular network connection.) Steel1943 (talk) 20:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

@Steel1943: T232491. --Ahecht (TALK
) 20:48, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
@Ahecht: I’m unfortunately glad to see I’m not the only one experiencing this issue. I went ahead and added a {{Tracked}} to the top of this section since I didn't see this discussed anywhere else. Steel1943 (talk) 21:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
@Ahecht: @Steel1943: - Can you try again (possibly with a browser or phone restart if necessary). I've made some experimental changes on the Wikimedia side of things which may (hopefully) fix this for you. BBlack (WMF) (talk) 01:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@BBlack (WMF): I made this edit on my cellular network (as well as this one), so that may have resolved it. Steel1943 (talk) 02:30, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@BBlack (WMF): It's working for me too. --Ahecht (TALK
) 14:39, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Apparently incorrect interlanguage link[edit]


On the Usufruct article, the interlanguage link for Romanian links to ro:Drept de uz and, apparently, ought to link to ro:Drept de uzufruct; see talk:Usufruct#Incorrect link to Romanian Wikipedia article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 20:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

You'll want to edit wikidata:Q160474 in the lower left area. ―cobaltcigs 20:57, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
There's a conflicting Wikidata item preventing it from being corrected. I requested its deletion and posted a note on the article talk page for the concerned editor. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 22:02, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Recent class=sortkey changes?[edit]


Were there any recent changes in class="sortkey" area? Template:Track_gauge#List_of_defined_track_gauges now shows (in 1st row for example):

00003 mm0.118 in

Expected, as it was until ~some weeks ago:

0.118 in

What shows extra is the sortkey, with source code being (unchanged):

<span class="sortkey">00003 mm</span>0.118 in

Any ideas? -DePiep (talk) 12:45, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Has to do with this in {{Convert}}? @TheDJ and Johnuniq:. -DePiep (talk) 12:49, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Nothing to do with convert. If you edit Template:Track gauge/doc/input options, you will see that there are no convert transclsions, but does have something to do with an edit to common.css. You'll need to update Module:Track gauge/autodocument to use the data-sort-value method for sorting. -- WOSlinker (talk) 12:54, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
OK. I only mentioend {{Convert}} becasue the class change was announced there. -DePiep (talk) 13:00, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • So instead of
<span class="sortkey">00003 mm</span>0.118 in
<span data-sort-value="00003 mm">0.118 in

Solved. -DePiep (talk) 14:23, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

DePiep, actually, I'd say: <span data-sort-value="00003">0.118 in</span>. You 'mask' the content of the cell, with the numerical value 00003. And of course this assumes that you use the same sort of numerical values in all the other rows. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:42, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
I get it, thanx. However, I don't have time to refine & test that in the detail template. -DePiep (talk) 20:57, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Help with LUA and shoving a string into a template[edit]

In Module:JCW, I have in this version, the following,

function p.pattern (frame)
	local n = mArguments.getArgs(frame, {parentOnly = true})
	local length = TableTools.length(n)
	local text = string.format ('*%s', n[1] or '')
	n[1] = nil --make next loop only target arguments >=2
	for i, j in ipairs(TableTools.compressSparseArray(n)) do
		text = text..string.format("\n** {{replace|%s|.*|<code>.*</code>}}", j)
	return text

The line text = text..string.format("\n** %s", j) is apparently shorthand for 'dumbass that can't code LUA', because if if you have a string like '*Bibcode*', you don't get, as I'd expect

    • .*Bibcode.*

but rather an un-parsed

    • {{replace|.*Bibcode.*|.*|.*}}

If someone could de-dumbassify my code, that would be peachy. The goal is if the substring '.*' is present in a string like '.*Bibcode.*', I want those to become wrapped in code tags, like so <code>.*</code>Bibcode<code>.*</code>.

@Galobtter: maybe? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 13:59, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

I think you need to escape the special characters (. and *) in your search. See this tutorial and this manual. I think you need something like %.%* to find '.*'. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:18, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
I'll double check, but it would be a bit weird since {{replace|.*Bibcode.*|.*|<code>.*</code>}} works fine. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:47, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Nope, throws off a bunch of errors if I do that. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:51, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@Headbomb: Templates won't be expanded from lua output. To use a template, you'd need to use frame:expandTemplate. However, in this case, there's no reason to use lua to call {{replace}}, since that template is just going to call back to a lua module anyway. Just do:
 text = text .. "\n** " .. mw.ustring.gsub(j, "%.%*", "<code>.*</code>")
mw.ustring.gsub is just the unicode-compatible version of string.gsub. --Ahecht (TALK
) 15:01, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah that works. Thanks. Still got other issues, but less pressing ones. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Plain string.gsub works fine in Ahecht's code because there is no search for Unicode characters: it's just searching for dot and asterisk. Johnuniq (talk) 23:44, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
True, but I always prefer to use the unicode-compatible versions as a matter of habit since it makes re-using the code later easier. --Ahecht (TALK
) 20:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Unicode is definitely better than non-unicode. A lot more scalable. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:12, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank button changing into rollback[edit]

I have noticed that on Win10 using Chrome that upon loading a page history that the page is reformatted after a couple of seconds, I guess because of CSS or script mods. When this happens the rollback button moved exactly to where the thanks button was. Not, in itself a big problem but, embarrassingly, if I click thanks before this change occurs (from ~0.5 to ~3 seconds) the interface reads it as a rollback. Anyone have any ideas? I use the script that should hide rollback on my watchlist - sometimes it does some times not - but it is useful from page history. As an aside, is there a way to add a thanks button to the watchlist? Jbh Talk 14:37, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Seconded (Win7/Opera). I have probably inadvertently rolled back around half a dozen times, followed by an undo, and a red-faced summary, "self-revert; fat-finger error". Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 02:50, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Hmm, I don't get the page reformatting issue. Perhaps related to a gadget or .js script? Sam Walton (talk) 15:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@Jbhunley: It's probably due to my inline diff script; the view history button loads a little bit after the page does. I have a CSS hack that will reserve the space normally taken up by the button on page load--this prevents the script from significantly shifting any UI elements (at the cost of an ugly blotch of whitespace for a split second before the script loads in). If you'd like to try it out, you can add the following lines to your common.css page:
.mw-changeslist-edit .mw-changeslist-separator {padding-right:84px;}
.mw-changeslist-edit {padding-right:0px;}
#pagehistory .mw-changeslist-separator {padding-right:84px;}
#pagehistory {padding-right:0px;}
...which should fix the problem for both the watchlist and history pages. If you need more or less space (it could vary, depending on fonts and the like), you can adjust the 84px up or down. Let me know if this helps with the problem! Writ Keeper  17:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. That works. I upped it to 120px which does not seem to cause issues on lower res displays. The button still jumps but it is to 'undo' on the laptop. I can catch the error before it commits the undo. Jbh Talk 19:03, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-37[edit]

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week

  • You will be able to read but not to edit Wikidata for up to 30 minutes on 10 September at 05:00 (UTC). [4]
  • When you log in, the software checks your password to see if it follows the Password policy. From this week, it will also complain if you are a "privileged user" and your password is too short. If your password is not strong enough, please consider to change your password for a stronger password. [5]
  • Recurrent item The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and from 10 September. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 11 September. It will be on all wikis from 12 September (calendar).


Future changes

  • Advanced item Soon, the AbuseFilter will recognize new syntax errors. Specifically, it will recognize errors about empty operands. You can see a list of examples in phab:T156096. Any active filter with such an error will stop working; hence, please take a look at the list of affected filters, and fix the ones that you can fix. Note that there is also an ongoing RFC on meta-wiki about the creation of a new abusefilter-manager global group.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by botContributeTranslateGet helpGive feedbackSubscribe or unsubscribe.

(manually posting due to problems with MassMessage this week.) 19:22, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

503 errors on Wikimedia / Wikipedia pages[edit]

Resolved: Resolved per below. --TheSandDoctor Talk 05:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

In case this is affecting anybody else: The problem is under investigation. ↠Pine () 05:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Update: the problem is believed to be related to network maintenance, and has been resolved. --↠Pine () 06:10, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

External links with embedded "[" and "]"[edit]


How do I display an external link that contains "[" and "]"? Here is an example: The first result of this Google Scholar search takes you to a page. But its url has "[" and "]" in it. I tried to paste that link into this Resource Request, but the "[" and "]" garble the result. Is there an escape character that can be used to "hide" the "[" and "]"? Thanks. —Bruce1eetalk 13:23, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

See Help:URL#Fixing links with unsupported characters: [6]. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you – that's what I needed. —Bruce1eetalk 13:34, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Slow emails from Special:EmailUser?[edit]

Anyone else noticing that Wikipedia emails seem to take a while to arrive lately (e.g. notice of one in the interface long before it shows in your inbox), or is that just me & my provider having issues? Received one that took around 20 minutes (from what I recall) to arrive in my inbox earlier this week (just had time/remembered to ask now). --TheSandDoctor Talk 20:44, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Someone sent me one today, and I received it promptly after the notification. — JJMC89(T·C) 04:24, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Huh. Thanks, might be just me then....I wouldn't put it past that provider (used to be good, but down hill in recent years), but oh well. Thanks again! --TheSandDoctor Talk 05:22, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
@JJMC89: I accidentally stumbled across another user affected by this. Ticket filed (phab:T232928). --TheSandDoctor Talk 04:37, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Easy way to find mismatched assessments?[edit]

So I found Pullman Square entirely by accident when trying to find GA-class WP:MALLS articles. But for some reason, it was only assessed as a C-class Shopping Malls article despite being GA-class in every other Wikiproject. Is there an easy way to find articles that have contradictory assessments of this sort? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 21:54, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

It should be possible with WP:PETSCAN, you need the intersection of Category:Good articles with subcategories of Category:C-Class articles etc.; you need to enable both mainspace and Talk: space. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:35, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I also got a list using the page_assessments database: quarry:query/38930. There are a lot of false positives though, for instance if the article belongs to inactive WikiProjects. I don't think I can check for those. Same query but for FA: quarry:query/38931. I think category intersections such as with Petscan is going to work better. MusikAnimal talk 22:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Template reformatting[edit]


How can I reformat {{Anthony}} so that it is a tad wider and so that multiple links may appear on a line?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:26, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

TonyTheTiger Increase width and remove bullets. --Trialpears (talk) 05:09, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger: Alternatively, increase the width and alter |contentclass=plainlist to |contentclass=hlist. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Redrose64 thank you. Also, thanks to Trialpears, but the other solution seemed easier to me.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:18, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Contribs footer weirdness[edit]

Something about this particular username (maybe the asterisk at the beginning?) seems to be breaking a couple of the links at {{Sp-contributions-footer}}, but I'm afraid I don't know much about the features being used, so I'm not sure where the problem is exactly. Just thought it would be worth bringing up here. Thanks, –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Template:Sp-contributions-footer should be fixed a little. I did these changes on fiwiki and extra characters in username are now rendering correctly. Stryn (talk) 08:58, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Oh, actually not, now it's not working usernames where is a space like "Given name". Stryn (talk) 09:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
I fixed it, hopefully without causing any other issues. urlencode takes a formatting option, and using WIKI leaves leading * and : unadulterated (as if it were wikitext) and thus unacceptable for a url; changing to QUERY seems to take care of the issues. Interestingly, a leading # doesn't cause the same issue, not sure if that's intentional or not. ~ Amory (utc) 09:52, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
That also broke on usernames with spaces so I reverted it. I think it would work to wrap urlencode in {{encodefirst}}: {{encodefirst|{{urlencode:{{{1|Example}}}|WIKI}}}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Urgh, thanks. I tested spaces, but... Anyway, seems DJ and xf took care of it. ~ Amory (utc) 12:57, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Unable to edit my common.js[edit]

When I edit my common.js and save it by clicking the "Publish changes" button, there is no edit saved. I don't get the timed "Your edit was saved" popup afterwards either. It doesn't matter whether I'm trying to insert new code (e.g. to load another script) or add or edit an existing comment – none of them get saved. The history of the page shows the last edit was in May and my contribs don't show the edit either. I am able to edit User:AlanM1/sandbox as well as WP:Teahouse. Any ideas? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:50, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Disregard. Enabling WikEd and then disabling it again solved the problem for some reason. I'll note for the record that the syntax-checking and coloring wasn't working either (and is now). —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:00, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Change mobile skin[edit]

The skin preference doesn't affect mobile sites (** I can not change mobile skin no matter how hard I try. So we were chatting on #wikimedia-tech about this. Isarra told me there was a phab task about this problem, and Jon Robson commented there that there is a mobile skin preference but it is hidden. I asked Isarra and other people on #wikimedia-tech, but they didn't seem to know too. Some of them tried to enable it via api, but that ended in failure. Anyway, he told me to find some gadget maker nerds and ask them as "they might know". So I am asking here. How to change skins on mobile? Masum Reza📞 05:39, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

VE and Edit conflicts[edit]

I have two column edit-conflict enabled as a Beta feature and it seems that VE is unable to process any edit-conflicts. I was frequently conflicting with an IP over Rupi Kaur and every single time (thrice), the publish button returned a 404 error. I needed to relaunch the edit-page and re-write it, pending which it was possible to publish. WBGconverse 15:28, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

This seems to be (or related to) #cannot save edits 404 error. There are bug reports for it, such as phab:T230272. – Ammarpad (talk) 15:38, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Can't follow links to .pdf's[edit]


--qedk (t c) 10:29, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Recently, whenever I try to follow a link to a .pdf, such as for instance this, I only get a blank page, while other people seem able to access it without trouble. Admittedly, I am in the EU, and so I get shut off from various US media because GDPR, but the .pdf thing seems different. There's no message at all, just a blank page. Bishonen | talk 09:24, 15 September 2019 (UTC).

@Bishonen: What is your operating system and browser version? Does it happen for all links to .pdfs (for posterity, the .pdf on the link shows up fine on my Catalina 10.15 machine's Safari 13, Firefox 69, Chrome 76) or only some? --qedk (t c) 09:30, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
OS X El Capitan and Firefox Quantum extended support release, 60.9.0, and it applies to all .pdf's. And, aha, I just tried that .pdf in Safari and it works there. So I can manage. I'd like for the links to work in Firefox, since it's my usual browser, but I can manage. Thank you for your helpful questions, qedk! They made me realise I should try a different browser. Bishonen | talk 09:42, 15 September 2019 (UTC).
Works in Edge on Win10 in the EU too. DuncanHill (talk) 09:44, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
If you go to Options -> Applications on Firefox, what is PDF set to? Nardog (talk) 09:52, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
@Bishonen: you are not alone. DuncanHill (talk) 09:53, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
To spell that out: Click the triple horizontal bar "hamburger" menu button at top right, then click Options. Scroll down to "Applications / Choose how Firefox handles the files you download...". Near the bottom of the list you should see "Portable Document Format (PDF)". If it is set to "Save File", each time you click a pdf, it is downloading that pdf to your downloads directory. You probably have a hundred duplicate pdfs there! The location of the downloads directory can be seen in "Save files to" just above Applications. Johnuniq (talk) 10:01, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I probably have, I never look in dusty corners like my downloads directory (which I never knowingly direct any downloads to). I've now set the .pdf option to "Use Preview (default)", and it works. Thank you all! Bishonen | talk 10:15, 15 September 2019 (UTC).
Glad to know you found the culprit. Face-smile.svg --qedk (t c) 10:29, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Watchlist not showing edits[edit]

I'm in Australia (GMT +10) and edited Wikipedia up until about 05:00 today. When I went to edit at about 14:35 today I updated my watchlist but it only shows edits from 07:53. I've changed nothing so I don't understand why it's only showing some edits from today. My prefs are set for 500 edits and the last 5 days but I'm showing nowhere near that. Is this an issue affecting anyone else? --AussieLegend () 06:36, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Google auto-translate stupidity :-)[edit]

What part of "fr" did you not understand?

This is kind of amusing. In the process of reviewing Draft:Manoir du Clap, I did a google search for "manoir du clap" and was surprised to discover we already had such an article on enwiki, at least according to Google. Problem is, I couldn't find it. My first guess was maybe this draft was once in mainspace and got draftified, but no evidence of that either. Lots of head scratching ensued. Turns out, the article really is on frwiki (and indeed, if you click on the link, it takes you to frwiki), and Chrome's auto-translation not only translated the text, but "helpfully" translated the hostname too. Mentioning it here in case anybody else has been tripped up by this silliness. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:00, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

This may be related to Project Toledo, even though the project's page does not mention translation back to English. But it's quite similar. – Ammarpad (talk) 16:58, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

No change in size[edit]

In the mobile version, the diffs always says "No change in size" even if there is change in size. See for example [7].--SharabSalam (talk) 19:52, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

This is phab:T232941. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:30, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

The new update[edit]

I don't know if this is an appropriate place to put my feedback but I have to say that I am not impressed by the very new update to the mobile version, I hope Wikimedia doesn't go forward with this, for example what's the point of having the number of contributions bigger in diffs? I think it should actually be removed from diffs because there is prejudice against those who have few edits in Wikipedia community and therefore they usually get reverted often. Instead Wikimedia made the contribution number bigger! Also my phone screen is small and the numbers make the interface looks weird like the word "edits" disappear when the user has so many rights. Also what's the point of using these icons? to differentiate between anonymous and logged-in users? They are pointless. Anyone can differentiate between the IPs and the logged-in users. I feel like the new update didn't offer any improvement. If this update was the old version and the old version was the update I would actually count the old version as an improvement.-SharabSalam (talk) 00:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

It was a regression. It will be resolved together with the task mentioned above. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:02, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

AutoWikiBrowser fails to connect[edit]

AWB (version, running on Windows 7 64-bit) is failing to connect, reporting:

Error connecting to wiki

An error occured while connecting to the server or loading project information from it. Please make sure that your internet connection works and such combination of project/language exist.

Enter the URL in the format "" (including path where index.php and api.php reside).

Error description: StartIndex cannot be less than zero.

Parameter name: startIndex

and then:

User check problem

Check page failed to load.

Check your Internet is working and that the Wiki is online.

So far as I can tell, my configuration files have not changed since I last successfully used AWB two days ago. Obviously my internet connection is currently working, and Wikipedia appears to be functioning for normal editing.

Is there a problem with the server? Mitch Ames (talk) 11:41, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@Mitch Ames: seems to be related to phab:T233070. — xaosflux Talk 12:48, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
OK. Thanks. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:06, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Pageviews tool not working on at least one article[edit]

[8]. "Error querying Pageviews API - Not found." Help? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:08, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

America (Maurizio Cattelan) was moved to the current title today. The tool doesn't use live data. The former name America (toilet) has data [9]. I suppose the tool could check whether the requested page exists currently and give another message but it still wouldn't have page view data. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Suppressing inline cite backlinks (the little bold italic letters)[edit]

Hello colleagues. When a citation looks like this:

a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z aa ab ac ad ae af ag ah ai aj ak al am an ao ap aq ar as at au av aw ax ay az ba bb bc bd be bf bg bh bi bj bk bl bm bn bo bp bq br bs bt bu bv bw bx by bz ca cb cc cd ce cf cg ch ci cj ck cl cm cn co cp cq cr cs ct cu cv cw cx cy cz da db dc Howard, Greg (2014-02-06). "The Big Book Of Black Quarterbacks". Deadspin. Archived from the original on 2019-03-04. Retrieved 2019-03-10.

Is there a better way? This is as a result of the source being used a lot in the article, and especially because it is used to source some, but not all, rows in a large table. Can those little letter backlinks (what are they called?) be suppressed, hidden, grouped, or something? It seems to me that it not only looks bad, but is entirely useless to a reader. Is there a doc that covers this? Thanks in advance! Levivich 17:04, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@Levivich: If you want to hide them for yourself, it's easy - the CSS rule is {
  display: none;
and that goes in either Special:MyPage/common.css or Special:MyPage/skin.css, whichever you normally use. It hides both the subscripted letters and the up-arrows that occur when the ref is used just once. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:42, 17 September 2019 (UTC)