Wikipedia:Education noticeboard

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Welcome to the education noticeboard
Purpose of this page Using this page

This page is for discussion of items that relate to student assignments and the Wikipedia Education Program. Please feel free to post, whether you're from a class, a potential class, or if you're a Wikipedia editor.

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Wiki Education's Monthly Report for January 2019[edit]

Wiki Education's Monthly Report for January 2019 is now available. Find the report as a PDF, on-wiki, or on our blog. Ozgegun (talk) 23:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Speedy Deletions of Outreach Dashboard pages[edit]

A flurry of WP:CSD G8 deletions today have removed a number of education course dashboard pages (see below). Unfortunately, they were all created in the wrong place, so someone decided to template them all for speedy removal as not belonging to a parent page. Luckily, one active project has been retained, originally at Wikipedia:Outreach Dashboard/University of Derby/5PU506 Content Development (January 2019), but now moved to be a sub-page of Wikipedia:Wiki Ed.

Obviously, this wasn't created at http://dashboard.wikiedu.org/, so any attempt to edit it on Wikipedia reveals the default 'DO NOT EDIT THIS PAGE!' notice. Please could I ask if a more experienced editor could advise its creator (Cbderbylib) what, if anything, she now needs to do to get it properly registered on the dashboard.

For anyone wanting to restore the deleted pages at WP:REFUND, these are:

Many thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:02, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

 Comment: @DeltaQuad:, hi, I came across this page and thought you could have a look and advise how to ask for undo deletion and move those pages in the dagger list above? They are said to belong to wiki Education.
Also, how about moving another one from Wikipedia:Wiki Ed to under wiki Education?:
Seems to me, they, 7+1 in total, are course offerings. Sorry I am new to moving pages, and felt you could take care of it. Cheers, --Omotecho (talk) 01:24, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
@Omotecho: I'm happy to do whatever, I'm just unclear about where you want them moved to? (Please ping on reply) -- Amanda (aka DQ) 02:19, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
I've restored the pages so they can be dealt with, either get what is needed from them, or move them somewhere appropriate - then we can delete whatever may be left over. — xaosflux Talk 02:20, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
@DeltaQuad:, wow you are super fast! Thank you for crisp reply, and maybe @Nick Moyes: would confirm if those 7+1 pages to be moved under wiki Education dashboard. Thank you guys so much for offering help. =) --Omotecho (talk) 03:08, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
@Omotecho: there isn't a process for "us" (the English Wikipedia admins/editors) to "move" things to dashboard.wikiedu.org - perhaps drop an email note to contact@wikiedu.org and refer them to this link? — xaosflux Talk 03:18, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
@Nick Moyes, Omotecho, DeltaQuad, and Xaosflux: I'd want to defer to Sage (Wiki Ed) to say for sure, but I wanted to quickly reply to this before anyone started spending time getting into mass moves/deletions. There are two Dashboards. Wiki Education developed the one that is at dashboard.wikiedu.org. A fork of that is hosted at outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org. The wikiedu.org Dashboard is used only by Wiki Education program participants, which are only going to be at institutions in the United States and Canada. The Outreach Dashboard (Programs and Events Dashboard) can be used by anyone. Course/event pages are primarily hosted in the Dashboard software itself, not on-wiki. For transparency reasons, the Dashboard can create mirrors of the course pages on wiki. These course pages are updated only through interaction with the course page on the Dashboard and should not be edited on wiki. They're just for documentation of what's going on on the Dashboard. If you were to edit it, the next time someone changes something on that Dashboard page, your edit would be removed automatically. These are the subpages of Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/. I do not believe the P&E Dashboard has this page mirroring active, and thus I'm not sure what documentation would've led multiple people to create such pages (I don't see the Dashboard edit tag in the histories, which leads me to believe they were created manually, not by the Dashboard). --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 03:38, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
I can't offer an opinion on whether the seven retrieved pages need to go anywhere or are now irrelevant. Not being an involved editor, they do look pretty old and finished with to me. However, Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/University of Derby/5PU506 Content Development (January 2019) is definitely very active and must be allowed to function. The education team are best placed to know how. I suspect Cbderbylib did create it manually, so I hope she will comment on her needs. Thanks to everyone for their swift response to my request for assistance here. Nick Moyes (talk) 08:33, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi, all - yes, the page was created manually - mainly because I saw other similar ones and couldn't figure out how it had been created via outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org (and clearly it can't be, which answers that question!) so I created it manually based on other existing pages I'd been pointed towards via the Wikimedia UK Universities page. I knew the main Wiki Education was only for US and Canada, sadly. I've found it useful for students to be able to point to a course page with more detail than the outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org page, when interacting with other editors, and also when using the educational assignment templates on articles they're editing. But happy to be guided towards a more appropriate location for it, if one exists! Cbderbylib (talk) 08:38, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Maybe it's time to enable edits from outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org?[edit]

Per the above discussion, it looks like these were all created manually. I suspect the early ones were created because at one point, Programs & Events Dashboard had links to the non-existent Wikipedia pages that would have been created automatically if edits were enabled, and the later ones were created to try to manually replicate an on-wiki course page intentionally since they were using Programs & Events Dashboard instead of Wiki Education Dashboard.

Enabling edits on en.wiki proposed a while ago, but the proposal was archived without enough input to be a clear consensus. It's enabled and being actively used for education programs on two other language Wikipedias now (pt.wiki and cs.wiki). I suggest that we enable it here, which head of future confusion about why the on-wiki edits don't happen for courses on Programs & Events Dashboard.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:56, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

  • Support. I think this is not particularly controversial and had no explicit opposition the first time it was proposed.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:56, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Support It would be very useful for this to be enabled. Having a course page automatically generated on wiki helps for coordination of the students and to help the community understand that a course is taking place. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 14:01, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Support As a translator working on Wikipedia:Wikipedia Library projects, or another WMF’s channel useful for someone offering academic course and involve editing WP. Off topic but could be a great channel to support increasing peer-reviewed medical articles on WP which is kinda slow to evolve, but surely connected to WMF’s challenge to support Medical/healthcare personnel needing WP as backup on field. --Omotecho (talk) 16:14, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

A program of creating biography of Taiwanese writers on ENWP[edit]

Hi all. I'm a staff of Wikimedia Taiwan(WMTW). WMTW will have a program which works with the course "Chinese Literature" of Department of Chinese as a Second Language of National Taiwan Normal University (NTNU). In the program, students will need to edit or create articles about some Taiwanese writers in Mandarin language and their works on EN-WP.

According to WMTW's programs before, I'll ask the students of this course to prepare their drafts on Google Drive, and move to the article pages on Wikipedia after the teacher and some Wikipedian reviewing them. The moving may happen on 17th June.

I need someone help because I don't familiar with the policies, the habits or maybe some unspoken rules here. I'm worried that some articles reviewed by WMTW staffs or volunteers of ZH-WP will still been deleted under the policies of EN-WP. It will be perfect if some volunteers of EN-WP can help us to reviewing the drafts of the students and to give them some suggesting by leaving comments.

If you're interested in helping, please reply this message or mail to me via the system. Thank you so much.--Reke (talk) 12:34, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi Reke. One thing that jumps out at me is the use of Google Docs. I always recommend that student editors compose their work directly in their sandboxes. They can't link in Google Docs, they can't add inline references, and their section headers may not be formatted properly. When they move work to Wikipedia, there's a good chance of them introducing formatting errors. I also get the sense, working with student editors, that the ones who write in Google Docs have less of a sense that they're writing Wikipedia articles.
There are exceptions, of course, and people can produce good work off-wiki, but my experience is that the average person produces better work if they draft their contributions on-wiki. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 12:57, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Reke I am happy to help review and give suggestions. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:22, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Ian (Wiki Ed) Well, most students in Taiwan use to copy some paragraphs of references into their draft then rewrite it, if they do the same thing on the draft page or sandbox of Wikipedia, that will violate our copyrights policy and make their drafts to be deleted. That's the main reason why we usually ask them to work on some place which is not always public, Google Drive is one convenient choice, while sometimes we even use Microsoft Office or LiberOffice.org.
Asking them don't copy/paste in the beginning is useless. Most students felt that is too difficult to just write in their own words after reading. Maybe that shows the education of writing is fault in Taiwan. However, I can just design a simple way to help students not to offense the rules so easily.
Another reason that why we ask students to edit on an off-wiki platform is that they can't edit one page at the same time by visual editor. If the work is for a group, the only way is using some other online editing platform, then move to Wikipedia one by one at the last class.
Barkeep49 Thank you so much, and I'll tell you (and others who wants help too) how to do this next week.--Reke (talk) 15:41, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Reke if they copy source material into their draft and reword it, it becomes very difficult to avoid close paraphrasing - that's not a reflection on them, it's just a reality of writing. That can be very hard to detect with translations, but it's still a copyright infringement. And that's a problem for Wikipedia and for all re-users - I've seen 10 years of article history deleted because there were copyright infringements in the first version. Please, please don't allow them to do this.
While edit conflicts can be a problem with group work, we warn them about it up front and it seems to work. I get one or two complaints about this a term, out of the thousands of students we support. Most aren't doing group work, but quite a few are. One way around this is to have them draft their sections in their own sandboxes and then use a single sandbox to collate everyone's work. It's much less work to head these problems off up-front. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 13:43, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for your suggestions. I've tried to tell students don't make their statements by rewording, but just like I said before, useless. Over 60% of their sandbox pages still would be deleted by copyright problems, then I'll get many help messages from students and arguments from administrator. Using an off-wiki platform maybe is not the best way but it's one way that works in my experience. Teacher and I can stop those close paraphrasing works to be published at least.
The other way is writing a model article by myself and highlight the key words or sentences they need to replace. This way will be used if all target articles in the course have similar structure.
There are different learning process between different countries and that may cause different abilities of students. I totally agree your points but I have to consider the reality in Taiwan.--Reke (talk) 05:13, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Difficulty with Wikipedia member[edit]

Just wondering what can be done if there is a Wikipedia member who has been constantly deleting my group's work on an article for our school project. The member hasn't been offering much constructive feedback, even though we've reached out to try to communicate and negotiate with them. Instead, most of the content that we're adding to the article is getting entirely deleted, often for seemingly small reasons, such as data being in quotation marks, rather than italics.

We've received very little help from our professor and TA, so it would be great to get some advice with this.

Thanks, Linguistics300 (talk) 05:22, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Comment: While I agree that communicating principally in edit summaries is not ideal, Tjo3ya has been quite specific in their summaries [1]. Some discussion also appears to have been happening at Talk:Coordination_(linguistics), which is the preferred venue because comments there will come to the notice of everyone interested in that page - so it would probably be most productive if you sought a resolution there. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:08, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Hi Linguistics300! I'll reach out to you on your talk page. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:13, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @Linguistics300: Wait, assuming from your username, are you the entire class of "Linguistics 300"? If so, that's against our username policy, which prohibits shared use of an account. Even if you are not sharing the account and you are just an individual, the username still implies representing an entire class, which is a violation of the policy. I've posted information on your talk page. Wikipedia:Education program/Students and Wikipedia:Student assignments may also be relevant to you. Nardog (talk) 14:46, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
    • Nardog - I don't think that they're the entire class, I think they just chose it from the course title. Looking at the page history there are other people editing that seem to be from the same class offhand. I'm trying to determine who all is with the class via email and will also broach the topic of account names. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:34, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
      • Yeah, I realize that my comment was a bit hasty. User:Ianyuen98 provides a clue as to where they are from. Nardog (talk) 15:37, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
  • No worries! It's best to check for that just in case! Better safe than sorry and to find out earlier, rather than later with this sort of thing. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Unlogged class assignment?[edit]

Could somebody have a look at Chinese Learning as Substance, Western Learning for Application and a userpage suggesting this was a class assignment? I will remove it from the COIN noticeboard as having been mistaken for undeclared paid editing. ☆ Bri (talk) 01:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)