Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Dlthewave[edit]

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user 
Dlthewave (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) – –dlthewave 17:33, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Sanctions being appealed 
DiscussionLog
Administrators imposing the sanctions 

Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
GoldenRing (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of those administrators 

Sandstein

Goldenring

Statement by Dlthewave[edit]

  • I feel that the closing statement "Springee, Trekphiler, RAF910 and Dlthewave are warned not to misuse Wikipedia as a forum for polemic statements unrelated to Wikipedia, or attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities.", which appears to be copy-and-pasted from WP:POLEMIC, is not an accurate assessment of consensus among the admins who participated in the discussion. Among other things, it implies that all four editors are equally at fault, which does not appear to be what the admins intended in their support for a logged warning. Although Goldenring did delete a page in my userspace under WP:POLEMIC, there was no discussion of my "attacking" or "vilifying" anyone and one admin even stated "Dlthewave is in fact engaged in appropriate editing and discussion." There was no proposal to issue a logged warning to Dlthewave. (As a sidenote, I also feel that issuing a polemic warning to the other three involved editors instead of a warning related to talk page conduct was entirely out of left field, but that is something for them to address in their own appeals if they choose to pursue them.)
  • I feel that Goldenring's deletion of a page in my userspace, User:Dlthewave/Whitewashing_of_firearms_articles, has a chilling effect on my ability to document and share what I view as a long-term pattern in the gun control/gun crime topic area. This documentation plays an essential role in addressing current problems that are, in my opinion, a continuation of that pattern. My intention is to demonstrate a pattern and not to attack the individual editors who have been involved in that pattern. This removal is especially concerning when the "opposing" attacks and accusations which I documented are allowed to remain in full view at WP:Firearms and other talk pages. I would be open to discussing ways to do this that would not be viewed as an attack page, since similar pages maintained by other editors have passed MfD.
Although this deletion may have been within Goldenring's editorial discretion, I would like it to be reviewed by other admins and preferably discussed by the community at Miscellany for Deletion. –dlthewave 17:33, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I've opened a Deletion Review here as suggested. –dlthewave 21:53, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Sandstein[edit]

After rereading User:Dlthewave/Whitewashing of firearms articles, I agree with the appellant that the page was not (quite) a violation of WP:POLEMIC because it did not name editors and did not make allegations of misconduct, except as implied in the title ("whitewashing"), but that alone probably doesn't merit a warning. Because that page was the reason for my warning, I am striking it and recommend that GoldenRing (talk · contribs) undelete the page. A case can perhaps be made for its deletion on grounds of copyright / attribution, but that's a matter for the deletion process. Sandstein 18:37, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Per my comment here, I've also withdrawn the warning with respect to Springee. Clearly I should have read the enforcement request more carefully; sorry for that. I think that we should be more careful in the future as to whether or not to entertain enforcement requests directed at multiple editors. Sandstein 22:59, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
In response to Bishonen, GoldenRing is correct that an action that has been labeled as an AE action may only be reviewed by way of the process described at WP:AC/DS#Appeals, that is, here at AE, or at AN or ARCA – but not at DRV. Bishonen, I recommend that you undo your temporary restoration of the page for the purpose of the DRV, or you may be desysopped for undoing an AE action out of process, as described at WP:AC/DS#Modifications by administrators. Any admin who acts on the currently ongoing DRV by overturning the deletion may likewise be desysopped. Sandstein 15:26, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Springee[edit]

I'm clearly an involved editor. As I said before I think Dlthewave has a very strong POV on this topic and I frequently disagree with them. However, when push comes to shove, I don't think on good faith they viewed the page as a POLMIC. For what it's worth, I would support reverting Dlthewave's warning. Springee (talk) 19:12, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Statement by GoldenRing[edit]

I disagree with Sandstein above and stand by this action. Dlthewave has stated right here that the purpose of this page is to document long-term problematic editing and policy is clear that such material is allowed only for dispute resolution and when used in a timely manner. I don't see the practical difference between, "so-and-so said this" (which the appellant seems to admit would be disallowed) and "someone said this and here's a link showing who it was" which is what they've actually done. GoldenRing (talk) 21:01, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

@Bishonen: I'm not sure why you've suggested deletion review here. AE actions cannot be overturned at deletion review, only at AE, AN or ARCA. Have you also not just unilaterally undone an AE action? GoldenRing (talk) 10:19, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
@Dlthewave: I will reiterate here what I've said on the deletion review: if you wish to use this material for valid dispute resolution (probably either an ANI or arbitration case request) and can outline a reasonable timeline for doing so (either on-wiki or privately by email), then I will self-revert my enforcement action. GoldenRing (talk) 10:32, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I would like to add, for what it's worth at this point, that I agree a formal warning to Dlthewave was not warranted. GoldenRing (talk) 12:07, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Please note that I have requested clarification from the arbitration committee regarding my deletion at WP:ARCA. GoldenRing (talk) 16:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Simonm223[edit]

Marginally involved. I just found out about the removal of DLThewave's excellent summary of the challenges faced to bring firearms into compliance with WP:N including the way that a wikiproject has tried to present their MOS suggestions as policy. I've said as much at another venue, but this is definitely not a violation of WP:POLEMIC and should be undeleted for the valuable resource it is. Simonm223 (talk) 15:03, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Dlthewave[edit]

Result of the appeal by Dlthewave[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • I commented in the initial thread, so I'm not sure whether my response should appear in this section, or above with GoldenRing's and Sandstein's. The deletion of Dlthewave's userspace subpage was arguably appropriate under WP:POLEMIC, and within reasonable admin discretion on GoldenRing's part. While I'm not sure I would have done the same, I'm comfortable leaving the page deleted. That said, I don't think a formal warning to Dlthewave is warranted; there wasn't really any support for such a warning amongst uninvolved admins in the previous thread, and it seems like overkill. The proper response to a potentially polemical userspace subpage is to delete it, which has been done. There wasn't any convincing evidence of a pattern of behavior warranting a logged warning on Dlthewave's part, at least not that I saw.

    Regarding the logged warnings, I do take Springee's point that they perhaps paint the remaining 3 editors with an overly broad brush. There are clearly gradations of concerning behavior, with Springee on the mild end and Trekphiler/RAF910 showing a much more sustained and problematic battleground attitude. I'll leave it up to other admins whether we should modify the warning to exclude Springee, but it is worth considering while we're here. MastCell Talk 21:19, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Hmm. This is definitely a confusing situation. Reading the deleted page, it does seem borderline WP:POLEMIC so, perhaps, GoldenRing was right in deleting it. But, Dlthewave brings up a good point. If they do plan on making a future case then how else can they keep a record of the edits they see as forming a pattern? They could do it off-wiki of course, but isn't it better to be open about one's activities? While the deletion was within admin discretion perhaps, in cases of this nature, it is better to leave them as is with a note to the editor that they can't leave it sticking around for too long. Imo, the warning should be withdrawn. --regentspark (comment) 00:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure about deleting the whitewashing essay; I can't seem to make up my mind. Suggest dlthewave take it to Wikipedia:Deletion review. An admin should be asked to temporarily undelete the page for purposes of discussion as soon as the DR is opened. But I don't have any trouble agreeing with Sandstein, Springee, MastCell, and Regentspark that dlthewave's warning should be withdrawn and struck from the log, and Sandstein has already done so. Bishonen | talk 01:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC).
  • @Dlthewave:, I've temporarily undeleted your page for the deletion review. Bishonen | talk 22:01, 24 February 2019 (UTC).
  • Your deletion can't be overturned at Deletion review, GoldenRing? Are you sure? In that case, obviously I suggested it because I didn't know any better. A bit of bad luck that apparently nobody who did know saw my suggestion for Deletion review here at AE, some 20 hours before Dlthewave actually opened the deletion review. I'm not sure what should be the next step, considering there is quite a lot of discussion at the review already, and some disagreement about how to proceed. But whatever action is taken, rest assured I won't feel "undermined" by it, as somebody suggested there. I'm personally fine with whatever, although I want to apologize to Dlthewave for potentially complicating his situation. As for "Have you also not just unilaterally undone an AE action?", no, I haven't. If you're referring to my temporary undeletion of the page, for the deletion review only and with the front page covered by a template, per the instructions here, I can only ask you not to be so silly. If you're talking about my giving Dlthewave bad advice, well, I've explained how that came about (=ignorance on my part). Bishonen | talk 12:54, 25 February 2019 (UTC).
  • What an absolute joy you are to work with, Sandstein. It's a wonder more admins don't flock to help out at AE, where honest mistakes get met with immediate threats of desysopping. I do want to point out that there's a pretty clear consensus at DRV that the page doesn't violate WP:POLEMIC. @GoldenRing:, do I understand correctly that you are not going to recognize that consensus because it is being discussed on the Wrong Page(TM)? If this is the case, then I suppose we should tell everyone at DRV their opinions are not wanted there, re-delete the page, and then have the exact same discussion here. Or alternately, GR could rescind the deletion.... --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:59, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
  • I not only agree that restoring the page for deletion review is not an abuse of process, but that deleting the page via AE would be an abuse of process. The way to remove userspace essays that are contrary to policy is MfD., and review of decisions there is at Deletion Review. DGG ( talk ) 06:53, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
GoldenRing, do you intend to delete under AE every page in an area subject to DS (such as AP or PIA) that you think might arguably be the result of an action that violation an arb ruling,? DGG ( talk ) 17:16, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
And I have just noticed, Sandstein, that your closing at the AE Discussion used the wording of the arb case "for polemic statements unrelated to Wikipedia, " but the entire discussion above about whether it violated POLEMIC is irrelevant, because the page is obviously related to WP. And the arb com wording continued " attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities. " I do not see any editors named on the page in question. It was discussing edits. (Of course the editors were implied, because the statements wee linked, but nothing about the editors is question is said on the page, only about the edits. DGG ( talk ) 17:16, 5 March 2019 (UTC)


Arbitration enforcement action appeal by SashiRolls[edit]

Appeal unanimously declined. Sandstein 09:07, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user 
SashiRolls (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) – ~~~
Sanction being appealed 
"SashiRolls is indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which they are not a party." (16 December 2016) source
Administrator imposing the sanction 
Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Notification of that administrator 
[1]

Statement by SashiRolls[edit]

Recently, I saw somebody appealing on this board and I thought back on the fact that I've been banned for 750+ days from this board for my comment in Sagecandor v. Tlroche. That effectively stopped me from commenting. I'd also recently received some IP abuse ("fascist" diff) and from a sock named Dan the Plumber (more name calling:§) who turned out to have serious Syria issues and to be a sockpuppet of Sayerslle. The person who exposed this sockpuppet now appears to have left Wikipedia in disgust. Finally, a recent case seemed to suggest that here and now the feeling might be that it is excessive to prohibit people who provide actual evidence of an established pattern of behavior from speaking at AE. Two people have suggested making my case here.

Here are the details of the original case: on Saturday, 3 December 2016, Sagecandor insinuated I was a "Russian propaganda agent" at NPOV/N, while misrepresenting my contributions. (diff) On 10 December 2016, someone I do not know opened an AN/I case about Sagecandor and left me TP-notification that they had done so. In that AN/I case, the contributor currently known as GMG insinuated (in small letters) that I should be banned from all noticeboards for asking Cirt why they were so reticent to respond to another contributor's questions about their pre-Sagecandor identity. (NB: occurrence 20 of 34 for Timothyjosephwood at AN/I in that archive: diff. )

On 15 December 2016 Sagecandor accused Tlroche of being disruptive for creating a reference sub-section with {{reflist}}, then {{reflist-talk}} at NPOV/N (diffs 10-12), and for responding to SC having falsely accused them of "forging signatures" in diffs 4-5. At this point, Cirt had brought 3 cases to AE as Sagecandor in the space of a week and I thought I should provide diffs showing that 1) they were extremely averse to being transparent about their history and 2) they were making things up about the person they were currently prosecuting. I did not comment in the other two AE cases they had brought. (Cf. archive 204) As a result of the above, on 16 December I was indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which I am not a party. I have never broken this prohibition. Within ten days of receiving that prohibition, I was blocked from en.wp entirely when Cirt prosecuted me with his Sagecandor sockpuppet.

Over a week ago, I asked Timotheus Canens to reconsider whether he thought his current ban was justified or not. He did not wish to do so (edit summary: no). I asked him for diffs supporting the view that a topic-ban from AE was necessary or desirable. I have, to date, not received any.

I have no intention of "casting aspersions" on anyone, nor do I have a "battleground mentality". I've made 2500 edits or so since returning around Toussaint (2018), quite a few of which were in controversial areas editing alongside editors whose reputations for, let's say, having "strong opinions" are well established. Two pages that I was the principal author of have also appeared on the en.wp front page (both nominated by others) during that time. The time-consuming process of reliving some of these moments to fill out the form here has been a bit of a wp:pain, which went beyond the bureaucratic question of filling out forms.

It is entirely possible that I will never have reason to comment on an AE case that I am not a named party to. In other words, I believe I wandered into the middle of a heated battle surrounding Cirt's mission as an undercover editor without knowing what I was getting into, and will seek to avoid having that happen again. I have no intention of using AE as a soapbox in the way that it has been used in the past. I would like my full wiki-zen-ship privileges restored, and have the last active sanction against me removed about the CIRT affair, as it serves no purpose and discourages me from participating in this legendary land of socks and honey.

My wikiscans: en | fr (this data is based on the "individual edit" rather than "substantive edit")

Thank you for reading this, and sincere apologies for any damage I've done: I make awkward editing mistakes. Too many. that's why my edit totals are so high, because I fix it when I make a mistake. Unfortunately prior to 2016 my experience with mediawiki was overwhelmingly on a personal wiki where nobody cares if you make 8 edits to get a paragraph right. I'll try to improve in this area.

MrX, you were the first commenter on Sagecandor v. Tlroche and on this request. Concerning your comment generally, I'll just add these two WMF diffoscopies : (x-Sage) | (x-Snoog). Association is no crime. Demonstrating one isn't either.
For the connection with your AN/I case, please glance back at this talk page section that Dan the Plumber opened on the BLP we recently ran into each other on. The WP:DEWitude of that BigBlueTM 4-word-link-button that Dan added about the chemical attack on Tulsi Gabbard's BLP is a question we should probably ask about on the TP one of these days. But, yes, this is indeed the same Dan whose edits the long-term editor you were seeking to have indeffed was reverting. I opened my statement with links to their peppy PA. I sekritly suspect (assuming nothing) that the anon. IP may have been Daniella the Electrician but I've been wrong before.
Your typing is convincing, though. Letter by letter you've re-scoped a reminder as an accusation (which I grant, magnified 200x through spectral diffoscopy, it does rather resemble... that's why I provided a link to document the reason for my concern in the first place). Your decontextualized zoom-blur-up of (go tempora, go SnooX!) into a 2nd degree snark-crime is fair enough, too, I suppose. Is there a don't joke with the regulars! essay somewhere? In any case, that page has calmed down a bit, don't you think? On a more personal note, I had no intention of bringing up your actions on Ms. Gabbard's BLP or your recent actions at ANI, as I am not bringing any "request for action" against you. Since you're here though, I'll send you some wikiwiki aloha!
Cullen: I first read the comment I alluded to about wildebeests extracted from its original context off-wiki, so yes there is a sinking edge to its echo. I was just stealing BHG's word (beasts, actually) to describe "attack socks" (which she was not) and trying unsuccesfully, I fear, to morph/anonymize her into Dahl's famous "the BFG". In point of fact, though, I had assumed the comment had been excerpted from a completely unrelated recent AN/I drama-fest. Instead, it was said at AN in still another completely unrelated case; as it turns out, one you were involved in. I actually didn't know that because I'm not "watch-listing" (subscribed to) either board. I hope you will take this into consideration.
Jorm: I believe part of why admins found me annoying back in the post-2016 landscape was the number of times I gnomed my statements at AE, that is why I've done my gnoming in my sandbox before posting here. I also felt/feel it likely that defending Hidden Tempo got me in trouble with some admins. As for why I was blocked, specifically, on this page related to Sagecandor, I think only the blocking administrator could say. And I hope he does.
More generally, thanks to everyone, too, who has spent time reading through this appeal carefully and taken the time to comment.
Levivich, Mr Ernie, JFG, I really appreciate knowing there are some people out there who think I'm worth doing that for. :D SashiRolls t · c 19:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Timotheus Canens[edit]

Statement by MrX[edit]

Admins should duly decline this appeal. There is no benefit to SashiRolls commenting in AE requests for which he is not a party. The comments in this AE request by SashiRolls were indicative of a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality with respect to SageCandor/Cirt.

As evidence that SashiRolls continues to take a battleground approach with content disputants, I give you these diffs:

  1. February 24, 2019
  2. February 24, 2019
  3. February 25, 2019
  4. March 1, 2019

For context, this discussion at ANI involved me reporting a user for violating 1RR community sanction restriction on an article about a chemical attack in Syria; an article which SashiRolls was not involved with, in any way. SashiRolls simply followed me to ANI to cause trouble because he did not like the direction that another content dispute was taking on an entirely different article.

If that is not enough, I invite you read his recent snipes on talk:Tulsi Gabbard directed toward Snooganssnoogans and me. If necessary, I will provide diffs of some of the more aggressive comments, however this one stands out as being a not-so-clever attempt at accusing Snooganssnoogans and me of tag team editing, which he did previously here.- MrX 🖋 21:46, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Mr Ernie[edit]

There's really no reason for this sanction to remain in effect. The whole thing revolved around SashiRolls and Sagecandor. Since Sagecandor has since been blocked, this sanction can be removed. It was enacted solely because of the perceived disruption at AE's by and about Sagecandor (which SashiRolls was actually right about). If any problematic behavior resumes, then it will be easy to re-apply the ban. People deserve second chances. Mr Ernie (talk) 09:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by JFG[edit]

SashiRolls wrote a balanced and thoughtful reflection on what happened two years ago. In hindsight he was correct about Sagecandor, who I remember as a highly battleground-y and tendentious editor. Outside of this old dispute, SashiRolls is a constructive editor who manages to keep a healthy distance from his own point of view, while pointing out lapses in neutrality at various contentious articles. The sanction should be lifted without prejudice. — JFG talk 18:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by SashiRolls[edit]

  • First:

I think some consideration should be given to the fact that SashiRolls was actually right about the socking concerns.
— User:Boing! said Zebedee

Second, I've been editing with Sashi at Yellow vests movement for a few months and it's been very enjoyable. Sashi is fun to work with. I think anyone checking out Talk:Yellow vests movement/Archive 1 and Talk:Yellow vests movement will see it hasn't all been rainbows and unicorns there: we've had good-faith disagreements as well as vandalism, edit warring, POV pushing, claims of anti-semitism, and more wikiwonders, but even during the high-drama times, I've never known Sashi to be anything other than a helpful, productive editor. He's also answered my questions, helped me out and encouraged me as a new editor. Two years is a long time to ban anyone from anything. I hope admin will accept and remove Sashi's remaining sanction. His record since being unblocked, combined with his record at the sister wiki projects before that, demonstrates he deserves to be an editor in good standing here. That, and what Boing said. Levivich 04:32, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't see a single thing in this appeal that indicates that Sashirolls understands why this restriction was applied, nor any kind of comment about what they will do to change their behavior going forward.--Jorm (talk) 07:02, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

  • Although this comment: "Is this just tigers churning in the night, or is it another sign of what the BHG has identified as a wiki-wildebeest syndrome?" may have a certain literary merit, it is indicative of an ongoing battleground mentality. Accordingly, I cannot support this appeal at this time. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:15, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I came to the opposite conclusion reading that comment. The heading, "Collateral damage", and the preceding lines, "Looking back into this matter a few days later I see that it (or events surrounding it) seems to have had the effect of causing the retirement of one of the people who made a statement (Fitzcarmalan). This does not seem to me a positive outcome..." made me understand it to be a statement of reflection, sympathy and lament, not battleground. Levivich 14:49, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by SashiRolls[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • Judging by the sound of crickets in this section I'd wager that I'm not the only admin who has had trouble building up the motivation to wade through the appeal above. It's like, "Here's a contentious meandering wall of text. Please grant this appeal so you can get more."</exaggeration> All I really want to see in an appeal is an understanding of what the problem was and a plan to fix it. Bonus points if it doesn't blast through the 500-word limit.
Briefly addressing the substance of the appeal, I can't say I'm convinced that the battleground mentality is gone, but perhaps my view is being colored by my previous interaction with them [2] where they asked me to investigate 5-month-old "aspersions" made by an ideological opponent. ~Awilley (talk) 18:24, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I generally agree with Awilley. SashiRoll's request strikes me as battleground-y enough that I'd decline the appeal. While it might not be battleground-y enough to create a new topic ban, it's battleground-y enough to give me reason to think removing the restriction would be unwise. It might be a more difficult decision if this was a topic ban preventing them from editing particular topics, but this is just preventing them from jumping into unrelated AE threads. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:14, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree with Awilley as well. An initial 750+ word statement followed by another ~500 words of replies is not the greatest way to appeal a restriction in a forum with a 500 word limit. That said I don't see a demonstrated understanding of the reason for the sanctions, but I do see continuing unhelpful contributions to admin discussions at least some of which show a borderline battleground mentality. Not enough to sanction for, but enough to make it clear that removing this restriction now will not be a net positive for Wikipedia. Thryduulf (talk) 14:50, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I also agree with Awilley, and am accordingly closing this request as declined. Sandstein 09:07, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

BullRangifer[edit]

The comment was clearly inappropriate, especially given the previous warning. BullRangifer has struck the comment and apologised and so I am closing this with no action, but this is thin ice being skated. GoldenRing (talk) 09:03, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning BullRangifer[edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
Rusf10 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 18:19, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
BullRangifer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2 :


Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 
  1. March 12, 2019 Personal attack- calls me incompetent and says I should be topic banned.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 
  1. July 20, 2018 Received a warning for personal attacks on another Donald Trump related page.
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  • The above warning was issued within the previous 12 months and therefore qualifies.
Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

Cannot believe that after narrowly escaping sanctions with a warning for exactly the same type of comments last year, BullRangifer continues to personally attack me for expressing views that he disagrees with. I have done absolutely nothing to provoke him here as I have not had any contact with him in months.--Rusf10 (talk) 18:19, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

  • @BullRangifer:- You are mischaracterizing the AFD. The page was brought to WP:AFD as an WP:ATTACK page, this has nothing to do with GNG or a lack of sourcing.--Rusf10 (talk) 18:55, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @BullRangifer:- This did not "START" here, it started last year when you were given a warning. Because you are already aware, there's not reason for me to start a discussion on your talk page that would presumably go nowhere. You should have been fully aware that attacks, battleground behavior, and uncivil comments are not allowed.--Rusf10 (talk) 19:38, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @MastCell: What is the expiration time for a warning? BullRangifer's was roughly 8 months ago (not a year). So when @Awilley: brings up my warning which was issued around the same time as BullRangifer's, despite the fact I have done absolutely nothing to provoke BullRangifer this time, am I to assume that it can be disregarded too?--Rusf10 (talk) 00:46, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[3]

Discussion concerning BullRangifer[edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by BullRangifer[edit]

  • Frivolous, just like the AfD. It is not because we disagree on Trump, but because of filing a frivolous AfD which ignores article creation requirements. GNG is abundantly fulfilled, and I expect a speedy keep to happen soon. Rusf10 tends to come down on the opposite side of RS on all things Trump, and I consider that a matter of incompetence. We are supposed to side with RS and edit accordingly. There may be a disagreement on that, but it's not a matter for this frivolous AE. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 18:46, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • You may want to review what an attack page is. If RS uniformly and consistently criticize someone or something, and we document that, WE are not attacking the subject, but are doing our duty. It may look like an attack, and it certainly is, but it's not OUR unsourced or poorly sourced attack, it's our documentation of the attack.
On the subject of Trump's lack of honesty, all RS consistently document him as the most dishonest public person they've ever met, with abundant documentation and examination of whether it's a deliberate lie, a falsehood, an exaggeration, or a misrepresentation. It's now up to over NINE thousand false statements during his presidency. This all has a bearing on his veracity, and thus the article deserves to be kept.
You are confused about the nature of a forbidden attack page and a properly sourced article which documents negative information. We are not attacking Trump, but RS are doing so. They are documenting all the times he shoots himself in the foot. We must document that. It's our job, and a disagreement about that does not justify an AfD or starting this disruptive AE proceeding.
Arbitrators have more important things to do. I happen to have a talk page for discussing such things. AE is a "last resort" thing, so don't START here. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 19:26, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I have refactored my comments at the AfD to reduce the heat. The personal mention wasn't really necessary there. Sorry about that. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 19:33, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Ahrtoodeetoo[edit]

  1. I didn't see it as a personal attack. While I don't believe the complainant is incompetent, I think it's reasonable to question their ability to understand critical policies if they think Veracity of statements by Donald Trump is an attack page.
  2. A single personal attack shouldn't form the basis of an AE complaint unless it's really, truly, horribly, terribly, egregiously bad. This certainly isn't that. I'm not one to condone incivility, but come on now.
  3. BullRangifer struck the offending part of his comment and apologized.

R2 (bleep) 19:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit]

Result concerning BullRangifer[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • Simply on context of BullRangifer's comment in light of Sandstein's warning in July 2018 resulting from this AE request, this looks like a cut-and-dry personal attack that would merit a block. Adding other comments above, there's even more reason as the editor displays a battlefield mentality. Rusf has every right as a concerned editor to question if the page is an attack page, and as I don't see any other previous attempt to delete that page, it's not like they are pushing any POV. Whether that's right or wrong is not the question here, but it certainly is not any type of behavior that should draw a personal attack that BullRangifer has been previously warned about. --Masem (t) 19:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • The comment by BullRangifer was inappropriately personalized. Questioning Rusf10's competence in this instance is arguably fair—any editor who's been here for more than a decade, as Rusf10 has, should have a basic understanding of what an attack page is, and should recognize that Veracity of Donald Trump, whatever its merits, is not one. But in the context of an AfD, it is enough to simply make the point that the proposed deletion grounds are incorrect. If there is a larger problem with Rusf10's editing or competence, then AfD is not the venue in which to raise it.

    That said, it looks like the warning to BullRangier is nearly a year old, and BullRangifer has stricken the offending comment and apologized. In terms of a proportionate response, I'm with Ahrtoodeetoo. A single personal attack, unless outstandingly egregious, is rarely sufficient grounds for a block or other AE sanction, and more to the point, the offending comment has already been stricken and an apology offered. A sanction at this point would be purely punitive—and disproportionate—although of course if a pattern of such inappropriately personalized commentary continues then the question could and should be revisited. Those are my thoughts, anyhow. MastCell Talk 20:05, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

  • Invoking WP:COMPETENCE is usually offensive and often unnecessary in my opinion, and it makes it worse when you pipe it as incompetence. And it was not the right forum for discussing that anyway. That said, I'd be more concerned if BullRangifer hadn't quickly stricken the offending comments and apologized (something I wish more editors would do). Also to be fair, on the subject of July 2018 AE warnings this one is probably also relevant. (Not calling for a boomerang or counter-warning...I'd personally lean towards closing with no action.) ~Awilley (talk) 20:59, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Yeah, close with no action. I'm not calling for a boomerang either, but Rusf10 may want to be aware of of Awilley's special Thicker skin sanction. Bishonen | talk 21:39, 12 March 2019 (UTC).
    • Though this was on an AFD Page, not a user talk page. --Masem (t) 21:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

FeydHuxtable[edit]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning FeydHuxtable[edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
Kingofaces43 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 19:47, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
FeydHuxtable (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
  1. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Casting_aspersions : An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or severe. This especially applies to accusations of being paid by a company to promote a point of view (i.e., a shill) or similar associations and using that to attack or cast doubt over the editor in content disputes. . .
  2. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Discretionary_Sanctions: Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed.
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 
  1. March 14 2019 GMO aspersions principle violation (more in comment)
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 
  1. Jan 29 2019 Warned for violating GMO aspersions principle and uncivil behavior.
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.[4]
Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

Background

In the last AE concerning FeydHuxtable, they cast WP:ASPERSIONS in violation of the GMO/pesticide behavioral DS. Because disruptive editors frequently used things like shill gambits to cast doubt over editors in content disputes or further battleground behavior, a principle was passed in the GMO/pesticide case. Admins, please be sure to read that in the listed sanctions above. ArbCom specifically said this is a problem in this topic area and cannot be dismissed as non-sanctionable behavior when it continues. That especially goes for when editors have been notified of the DS, including trying to game the principle by not "exactly" calling someone a shill, etc.

There was also confusion in that last AE, so let me be clear that the talk page content did involve pesticides, and these were the types of edits that do involve pesticides as main cause for insect declines, the center of the underlying content dispute, being worked on at multiple articles. More on application of the DS here.

Current issues

After that, I'd been trying to work with that same battleground behavior I reported that absolutely did not let up. Feyd filed a declined ArbCom case request against me accusing me of pro-corporate POV editing and linking that to pesticides with absolutely no evidence. Arbs pointed out that it was largely meritless and that a motion for sanctions against Feyd could be considered. Feyd also said there, I'm not suggesting he's a shill. But one doesn't need CoI to make overly pro-corporate edits., and accused me of "weaponizing" the DS which is also clear gaming of the GMO/pesticide aspersions principle. Editors who bristle at the DS in this topic like that has usually are the ones that need to be removed in some fashion. Ironically, I was saying in the underlying dispute that pesticides were actually a cause of insect declines, but it seems like their battleground mentality kept leading to Feyd repeatedly painting me as some pro-pesticide or pro-corporate editor and encourages others.

I could go into more on gaming the 1RR restriction and dealing with a litany of WP:TENDENTIOUS behavior from them. For brevity unless asked, I'm going to stick to the blatant violation of the aspersions principle since that establishes the continued battleground mentality most succinctly. Due to being warned in the last AE and continuing it yet again in an ArbCom request of all places, I'm formally requesting either a topic-ban from topics where pesticides and insects are involved or else a one-way interaction ban in order to prevent future disruption and harassment. I have never run into Feyd before this, and I don't expect to see them outside this topic either, so either might work without future issues.

Feyd has made a very clear battleground mentality known here for this subject, so some sort of sanctions are needed to prevent additional disruption from them so the rest of us can actually get back to work on content since these issues above scuttle attempts at doing that. Kingofaces43 (talk) 19:47, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Procedural comments

  • Sandstein, admins cannot override Arbcom and call a direct violation of the aspersions principle "frivolous". The case was declined, and arbs said to take to to the admin boards. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:14, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Just a note that Joe Roe did say it was fine to file this at AE too. Kingofaces43 (talk) 19:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Vanamonde, the aspersions principle was crafted to be very strict to prevent comments exactly like yours because some people would always waffle on it. Arbs at the declined case also mentioned that the evidence was lacking to justify the claims, violating the principle. The original GMO/pesticide case was started in part because ANI does not handle these violations well. It was meant to be explicit that such behavior is not tolerated anywhere where pesticides/GMOs come up because not removing it makes the environment toxic and disrupts content discussion (or dispute resolution), but instead encourages the battleground behavior I've been receiving here trying to paint me as also disruptive for following the DS and getting battleground behavior removed. We're reaching a point if admins keep ignoring that and contradicting ArbCom, this will become an ArbCom matter to discuss ways to further prevent what's happening in this discussion (including what it does to editors who report the violations). It shouldn't need to be though since this is supposed to be a cut and dry violation as we hammered out at the original case, so I'm only asking for the standard protection editors who are following the DS are supposed to get from that principle, which has so far failed. Kingofaces43 (talk) 19:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Vanamonde, my position is quite clear the the DS and related principles are supposed to be enforced with some things that are not really debatable here without ArbCom changing certain motions (that discussions on pesticides are covered by the DS, and no aspersions, especially of the nature mentioned here). Arbcom's wheelhouse is defining the scope and what behavior is severely disruptive to the subject, and this discussion is running directly into issues with some of that. There is nothing battleground about that (don't shoot the messenger afterall), and I've made it clear in my comments at Goldenring's talk page that I despise any sort of cry WP:INVOLVED tactic. As for the declined case, arbs did not consider the aspersions principle as that was not the focus of what Feyd filed. That's why we are here as recommended since AN is not particularly for DS requests.
My comments to Goldenring are about direct misrepresentations accusing me of trying to drag a DS topic into an unrelated conversation in order to win a content dispute. I have to call that out since it is accusing me of something blatantly false with any reasonable understanding of the topic (and already mentioned as a good faith mistake that can be fixed). Pesticides came up almost right away in edits that had to be proposed because reviews covered, and Feyd mentioned, environmental stressors causing insect decline. The page already had plenty mentions of insecticides too prior. Feyd had been calling it "Fringe POV pushing" at the time, but once we started discussing what reviews actually said, then they switched to a you're editing from a Fringe pro pesticide POV. That's when I knew I had to stick to the DS strictly, and Feyd has been egging on these misrepresentations I mostly try to ignore up to this day.
I'm the last person to say I'm immune to criticism, but there's been too much directed at me that's also way out of line in this admin discussion. In addition to the sniping I've been subject to by Feyd, both those create an illusion of battleground behavior when one simply sticks to the DS and related principles. If the tables were turned and I as a long-term editor in this topic was the one casting aspersions about a "pro-corporate editor", I would be quickly sanctioned not only for that, but also for trying to game the DS by claiming things mentioned here like the DS not applying, especially if I did it at an admin or ArbCom board, a related page not having pesticide in the title, etc. Please be mindful of that double standard I'm currently being placed in because I've been following the DS carefully, so while I have very reasonable frustration over the current situation, calling that battleground, frivolous, or otherwise is not appropriate here. All I can do here is be extremely clear on what we worked on at the original ArbCom case so I can get back to working on the topic without these disruptions. Kingofaces43 (talk) 00:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
  • GoldenRing, I never called you WP:INVOLVED by acting at AE even before I fixed my typo that you would have seen before your post. I was saying an uninvolved admin should not be directly misrepresenting an editor as I explicitly told you that you were doing, and that it was fixable. Continuing down that path is what causes problems. We're at a point though that so many aspersions (shill-type or more general) have been cast about me and not been tamped down per the principle that I cannot address them with the current word limit outside of these procedural comments. I'm just asking the principle be enforced due to the explicit violations so I can go back to editing those articles again and work on fixing some of the underlying issues there (including some of Feyd's edits) without having to deal with the toxic behavior Feyd has been following me around with there and here already outlined at the declined case Feyd made. Kingofaces43 (talk) 19:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[5]


Discussion concerning FeydHuxtable[edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by FeydHuxtable[edit]

I see King's just made an excellent talk page post concerning the subject of our dispute. IMO it's a different class to anything I've seen him post before. King had telegraphed he was going to launch this AE, so I already have diffs ready that hopefully demonstrates much of the above is not entirely accurate. (And possibly to make a case that King's the one who warrants a topic ban. In fairness Im unsure about this, my own conduct hasn't been perfect, it's hard to be objective when you're personally involved.) FeydHuxtable (talk) 21:30, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

@Golden Ring
FWIW, IMO DS is now applicable to Insect Decline. I've no objection to a 2-way iban, though I agree with Sandstein it may not be needed. Other editors have started to weigh in strongly for the mainstream view. and I doubt even King will try to edit war against the emerging consensus. I don't think there's been much personal animosity in the dispute. That said, Im also not impressed with yesterdays edit to your talk. If this goes to round 4 I'd switch to supporting sanctions for King. Considering his past conduct, I can't see a trip to ANI ending well for him. That said, King also has many fine qualities, and IMO he doesn't quite yet warrant a sanction. ( I can post a more detailed diff rich expansion if you're interested in my take on this.) FeydHuxtable (talk) 13:55, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Tryptofish[edit]

I have a general concern, as opposed to a specific comment about this filing. @Sandstein: as a long-time watcher of AE complaints in the GMO area, it seems to me that you have a blind spot when it comes to GMOs. I'm not questioning your good faith by any means, but I think that this has become a problem in the way that you have been responding to these kinds of requests. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:44, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

@Sandstein, thank you, yes, I'll go to your talk page soon. @All admins, if you have questions about whether or not insecticides fall within the scope of the GMO DS, perhaps the best way to resolve that would be for me to file a request for clarification to ArbCom. I was thinking about doing that, and will if you would like me to do so. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:31, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit]

Result concerning FeydHuxtable[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • This is a frivolous request. The alleged misconduct consists of filing an arbitration case request. If arbitrators find the request problematic, they or their clerks will take appropriate action. We should close this without action. Sandstein 20:57, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @Tryptofish: Your comment surprises me. I'm not aware of treating GMO issues that come to AE (which is not often the case) different from any other issues. Please contact me at my talk page to explain your concerns. Sandstein 10:46, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Editors are generally given more latitude with their language when filing requests for arbitration, because such requests necessarily involve allegations of misconduct. If every allegation was accurate, ARBCOM could be dissolved, because there would be nothing for them to examine. I do not see FeyHuxtable's comments straying beyond what is acceptable for an ARBCOM request. Furthermore, ARBCOM is able to impose sanctions (via motions) on editors filing vexatious requests. Only one arbitrator suggested such an action, and a motion was not even proposed. Even if I found merit to this request, I would hesitate to second-guess ARBCOM. Kingofaces: the request was not declined as "meritless". It was largely declined because other forms of dispute resolution had not been tried yet. AE is not a form of dispute resolution; nor have you brought evidence here from the original dispute. In conclusion, I see no basis for action here. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:17, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Kingofaces, your last comment is concerning, because your language suggests that any admin who disagrees with your interpretation of what happened is neglecting their duty, which itself smacks of a battleground mentality. You've also initiated or participated in discussions with six editors involved in the arbitration request or this one, essentially asking them why they didn't support your position in its entirety. We are not ignoring the evidence you've presented; we're judging it differently from you. Additionally, your comment is missing the point of what most of the arbs said. Most of them did not comment on the evidence at all; they recommended that other attempts at dispute resolution be attempted first. This isn't such an attempt, because you haven't brought forward any evidence from the initial dispute. Finally, since you ignored this point above; AE is not meant for policing the arbitration pages. The arbs and the clerks are more than capable of acting on any violations there themselves, and have done so in the past. This dispute needs to be examined in its entirety. I recommend that that happen at AN, but if you wish to present additional evidence here instead, please feel free. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:05, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree with Sandstein and Vanamonde93 above - there is no basis for action in this particular request and the clerk team is capable of maintaining order at A/R/C without needing requests at AE. I'm also not particularly impressed with the claim that somehow having acted at AE makes me involved. However, stepping back a bit, there is clearly a dispute between these two that needs resolving. An interaction ban seems a good outcome to try; my only query is whether it can be done under GMO DS or whether we should send this back to the community at AN. I am still dubious that the content at the base of all this actually falls under the scope of GMO DS. @Sandstein and Vanamonde93: what say you? GoldenRing (talk) 10:05, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • An interaction ban is perhaps within scope of the DS, but I'm not seeing clear evidence that it is required - i.e., that the conflict between these two is disruptive to the work of other users. Sandstein 10:46, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @GoldenRing: I would hesitate to impose an interaction-ban here, because I do not think the behavioral issues have been explored in enough detail. Furthermore, behavioral and content-related issues tend to run together in some topics where reliable sources are not unanimous; this is one such situation. As such I think the community is better equipped to deal with this at the moment, and I think kicking this to AN would be the better option. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:15, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @Tryptofish: I don't see any question over whether insecticides fall under GMO DS; they unquestionably do. My hesitation here is that the content that kicked all this off was a strict, quantitative description of insect population decline without any mention of pesticides. Since both parties now accept that DS covers the discussion, it's a moot point. GoldenRing (talk) 09:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Mountain157[edit]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Mountain157[edit]

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
MrClog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 17:59, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
Mountain157 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/India-Pakistan#Standard_discretionary_sanctions :
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 
  1. 3 March 2019 After someone originally removed the content, which was then reverted, Mountain157 reverts it again without any explenation (not on the talk page, nor in the edit summary), violating WP:TALKDONTREVERT. This issue had been raised by another user on the talk page on 26 Feb already. Mountian157 also removes Pakistan as opponent of ISIL, whilst that edit had been sourced (including an article of The Indendent).
  2. 6 March 2019 Here a user removed Pakistan as ally, but got reverted by Mountain157 again. Whilst the user that originally removed Pakistan as ISIL ally didn't provide a good reason to do it (but at least attempted to), Mountain157 provides no information, whilst the listing of Pakistan as alledged ally was backed up by 3 articles of 1 Afghani news site (and Mountain157 also removed Afghani as the country that alledged Pakistan of supporting ISIL in diff 1) and seems pretty WP:UNDUE to mention as alledged ally in the infobox, whilst actively removing many other countries as alledged ally (see diff 3).
  3. 28 February 2019 Here the user removes India, Afghanistan and the US as alledges allies, keeping Pakistan in the infobox, whilst at least the US's allegation was backed up by the Washington Post and Al Jazeera.
  4. 26 February 2019 Here, the user that is being reverted by Mountain157 explained there edit on the page's talk page, whilst Mountain157 reverts the edit and doesn't respond to that talk page message.
  5. 13 December 2018 Here, the user removes sourced information regarding possible human right violations against Pakistani citizens, falsly claiming there is no evidence and calling the alledged killing of 2,000 citizens "neglectible".
  6. 2 January 2019 Here, the user tries to keep Pakistan as a confirmed ally of Al-Qaeda, reverting other people's sourced edits based on a false accusation of being a sockpuppet.
  7. 18 December 2018 Here, the user adds Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as confirmed allies of ISIL, citing questionable sources for at least Pakistan and Turkey allegations.
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  • Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 23 February 2019
Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

I, as a West-European, really had no opinion on the India-Pakistan(-Afghanistan) conflict and didn't touch the issue until I saw a dispute on WP:DRN about it. This issue has been closed because it is premature (no discussion, as Mountain157 refused to discuss it) and because it seemed like the user wasn't interested in participating, as they removed the message informing them of the dispute from their talk page ([6]). Whilst no mediation work was necessary from me as a result, I did decide to dive into the issue and it became apparent to me that the user I am filing an enforcement request for had been editing disruptively, whilst WP:AC/DS are active on the page. The user has been blocked for editing disruptively before, for 48h at Dec 25 2018 by Black Kite.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 

[7] (- The user has removed the notice from their talk page. It is unclear if Mountain157 wishing to make a statement. 08:20, 19 March 2019 (UTC))


Discussion concerning Mountain157[edit]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Mountain157[edit]

Statement by Legacypac[edit]

Based on Mountain157's general conduct against other users (mainly I've seen issues at ANi) it ie time to do something. Legacypac (talk) 16:43, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)[edit]

Result concerning Mountain157[edit]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • These diffs are quite concerning. Adding the claim that Pakistan supports ISIL, based on statements from within the Afghan government, is already questionable: contentious claims require exceptional sourcing. Removing similar claims about other governments based on similar sources is unacceptable after having added such material about one government smacks of editing with an agenda. I would like to hear from Mountain157 before proposing any specific course of action. I will note that this editor has been a regular at the admin noticeboards, and that their editing there has frequently demonstrated a battleground attitude. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:38, 18 March 2019 (UTC)